Le parti de l'ex président Aristide fait monter les enchères

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Le parti de l'ex président Aristide fait monter les enchères

Post by T-dodo » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:16 am

[quote]Elections en Haiti : le parti de l'ex président Aristide fait monter les enchères
Posté le 5 mars 2005

Le représentant du parti de l'ex président Aristide, le père Gérard Jean Juste a conditionné la participation de Fanmi Lavalas aux élections au retour physique en Haiti du président déchu il y a de cela tout juste un an.

Gérard Jean Juste a rappelé que l'ex président Aristide a été issu d' « élections libres » et qu'il a été illégalement empêché de terminer son mandat qui prend fin en 2005. Le prêtre, emprisonné en 2004 par le pouvoir qui l'avait soupçonné d'être de connivence avec des bandits armées, a également exigé la libération des prisonniers politiques, la réforme du système judiciaire et carcéral.

Gérard Jean Juste qui participait à un colloque organisé cette semaine à l'intention des partis politiques, a conseillé aux pol
itiques de résoudre la crise « correctement » au lieu d'opter pour une « solution á l'Irak. »

Des partisans de l'ancien président Aristide ont manifesté pacifiquement ce 4 mars dans le quartier de Bel Air, au centre de la capitale haitienne. Encadrés par les casques bleus de la Mission des Nations Unies pour la Stabilisation d'Haiti (MINUSTAH), les manifestants pro-Aristide ont défilé dans plusieurs rues du quartier de Bel Air en scandant des slogans en faveur du « retour physique » de leur leader.

Dans un entretien la semaine dernière avec le journaliste-historien Claude Ribbe, Jean Bertrand - actuellement en exil en Afrique du Sud - a dit se considérer toujours comme le président d'Haiti.

CJD/ VB[/quote]


Post by T-dodo » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:05 pm

Is Father Jean-Juste just the new leader who is representing the interests of former president Jean-Bertrand Aristide or a new leader of the people's party? Can he crystalize the aspirations of the masses of Haiti who supported ex-president Jean-Bertrand Aristide? I realize that my good friend Jafrikayiti vehemently disagrees with me about what is best for the members of the Fanmi Lavalas party today. The real politik, not to mention pragmatism, suggests that the best course of action after the February 2004 coup is to look for new leadership who can champion the causes of the masses and underprivileged of Haiti.

While we agree with him, our friend Jaf, that president Aristide was forced out of power in a manner that was anti-constitutional, and that the choice of the people was ignored and trampled, and that forces outside and inside of the country discriminated against them, those forces are too strong to ignore. Even if we manage to
bring back Jean-Bertrand Aristide as president to finish his term, which is highly unlikely as long as the United States is a superpower and France a minisuperpower, it is hard to imagine that the forces that prevented him from carrying out his mandate when he was president will not continue from where they left off and make his life as president more miserable and in the process the lives of his supporters as well if he returns. If you don't beleive me, ask the Syrians now who are dealing with forces bigger than them, or Bill Clinton! Jean-Jacques Rousseau said it in the 18th century: "You command nature by obeying it, not by fighting it." In this case, human nature that is!

What's important is Haiti and its people's dreams that Aristide articulated so well, not Aristide himself. Unfortunately, Aristide did not know how to achieve their goals. His job should be to ensure the realization of his people's dreams, not his personal one. A great statesman should be ready to sacrifice himself for his dr
eams. It is time for him to show that he is a great statesman. The way to do that is to pass the mantel to a new leader for his party. Someone who does not have his baggage and who can start anew taking into consideration that in order to carry out the mandate of the people, he or she needs to compromise with forces that have been oppressing them for generations. Someone who will get things done much easier than he can.

The example of Nelson Mandela, his friend, should be a model for him. The reason is that those forces are too big to ignore. They have shown several times, including twice while Aristide was president, that they can interfere and move us backward. While we won't get all that is better for the people, but it is better to move forward at a smaller pace than moving backward. As much as I admired the skills of former President Aristide, but he was a gambler. He gambled the house and lost. In the process, his family lost the house with everything in it. A responsible leader does not risk
everything his family had already to get some things it does not have yet.

It is time for Fanmi Lavalas to breed new leaders for the future of the party. I don't know who they are. But, having seen Jean-Juste in Miami in the early 1980s, we know he has charisma. Is he the right person to crystalize the aspirations of the masses of Ayiti or be the new leader of the party? We don't know! Charisma alone is not sufficient to save Ayiti. Political skills and economic development astuteness are essential and necessary additions to the qualifications needed for the job. That person must believe that he cannot save Ayiti, but the Haitian people themselves. As such, he or she will need to have the skills to motivate the Haitian people to save themselves from their own stumping blocks and those from the international community. Unfortunately, Haitians have no history of having the power of saving themselves. They all believe that only a president can save them. The day that a president can convince Haitians
that they can save themselves, he or she would have accomplished 50% of the task of improving the situation in Haiti.


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Post by Jonas » Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:48 pm

France is a mini-superpower? How come she is breaking her teeth in West Africa?

The interests of France and the United States, or rather their governments, coincided in this case-the overthrow of Aristide.
France could not have acted by herself.

This business in letting France exert this influence "on the cheap" has to end.

France does not have the means of her politics any more.


Post by T-dodo » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:47 pm


You may be right! I was not sure how to describe France's position in the world today. But, it has a permanent seat on the security council and veto power at the UN, if my memory serves me right. In addition, it is very strong at the European Union. Brazil is now in a desperate fight for a position at the UN similar to France, which explained why it got embroiled in the quagmire of Haiti. If Brazil is so envious of that position, it must mean something to have. It is undeniable that France was instrumental in the ouster of Aristide. In fact, after Colin Powell acknowledged it was difficult to advocate the forced removal of a president constitutionally elected, France was the first country to advocate the opposite and claim it did not care. Well, the exact diplomatic words were that "Aristide must take some responsibility for the situation in Haiti."

Jonas, I am not an admirer nor a fan of France. I never forgive it for th
e type of slavery imposed on Haiti, nor the way it treated us after the war of independence. But, we are living in a global world. Any serious country leader those days must take into account the influence of the other world leaders on his or her country. Otherwise, it risks isolation and misery for its people at best, or ouster or death at worst, like Aristide experienced. I don't condone that situation and I beleive that's not the way it should be. At the same time, I am too old to be wishful thinking. In fact, I have no time for that anymore. If I have to think or do something right, I must deal with the reality. And, my friend, the reality is not pretty. You upset the world powers only when you have no choice and the benefit outweighs the cost.

[quote]Fanmi Lavalas will do whatever it considers best in the situation.[/quote]


The best way I can read that statement is: "It is none of my business." I am not sure why
you do think so, because you could say the same thing about my caring about Haiti. That's the position that the fathers of the 1987 Constitution took about the people in the diaspora!

Perhaps, you are implying that the party belonged to former president Aristide. Even though he created the party, in general a political party belongs to its members. I can't remember any country in history when at the death of the leader of a party, its heirs inherited the leadership roles automatically. They may be able to make the members place them at the posts, but it is not an automatic affair. Besides, by being the majority party in the country, any decision they make will affect the country as a whole. Therefore, any caring Haitian should rightfully worry how the Fanmi Lavalas party does its business.

Jaf, what I meant by sacrifice was not the loss of life. I was referring to the loss of power. Unfortunately, power has become, or perhaps has always been, more important than the country to our leaders.
We should not encourage the continuation of that sordid relationship between our leaders, power and the country. It is one of the reasons why the country is in such a mess today.



Post by T-dodo » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:20 pm

[quote]What I am earing from you is this: since we cannot win against them, let us show them where we would like them to spank us so it hurts less.[/quote]

Jaf, unfortunately, you only heard what you wanted to hear. In other words, you did not hear what I said. The "spanking" part of your quote is nice rhetoric that does not apply to the argument I have been making. That is, President Aristide must realize now he has had his chances and missed his opportunities. But, he should not make his people suffer just so that he can inflate his ego. If he really cares about the Haitian people who believed in him, he should choose and promote a new leader for his party who can best represent the interests of his supporters. Now, that does not mean that I believe in the fairness of the coming elections. My guess is, and this is just my guess, that they won't be fair. Because, if they are, chances are that Lafanmi L
avalas will win again. The reason is that the other parties have been unable to advance a better argument for their interests. But the forces against them are so strong, that I doubt those forces will allow the conditions for Lavalas to continue winning. Recognizing the strength of the forces against them is not "allowing to be spanked", rather it is showing political maturity. As unfair as it is, but that is life.

I am sorry, but what you guys are playing is a losing game. You lost twice, and you are fighting to lose a third time. Playing politics with the lives of people who can't even eat a daily meal, is playing "qui perd gagne." As much as you do, I do not enjoy seeing the will of the people being trampled as they did in February 2004, the year of infamy in Haitian history. But, the Haitian people do not have the luxury of playing politics, while their stomachs are empty. And, that's what their leader should have made a priority of, filling that stomach. As their leader, you should have
their best interest at heart. Their best interest is not maintaining your leader in power, but instead, feeding them, improving their lives.

You already know there are major obstacles to serve the best interests of the people. It is time to be smart. What you should be working on now is, given the current environment, how can I serve the best interests of my people considering that difficult environment. That is not what I am hearing from you and your leader. Unless your leader's interest is only power, it is hard to understand how his obsession with staying in power is clouding his judgement. It is time for new leadership, not for the sake of new leadership, but because his formula has not worked twice. He had more chances than most people got in life. Most people don't have a second chance. He had a second chance and failed. He was not able to deal with an important faction of the Haitian society. Whether that faction is right or wrong is not the issue. The issue is the welfare of the people he wa
nts to represent. His obsession with staying in power, despite what happened and the way it happened, reflects that the people he wants to represent is himself. And, that my man, is hard for me to understand.

[quote]After the deportation of Toussaint, Napoleon was also jubilating.....Yet the Africans of Haiti continued the struggle.. Today we are seeing a level of resistance that only grows by the day.[/quote]

Yes, but allow me to remind you what Toussaint said after his deportation: "En me renversant, on n'a abattu à St Domingue que le tronc de l'arbre de la liberté des noirs; il repoussera par ses racines parce qu'elles sont profondes et nombreuses", according to J.C. Dorsainville. I will leave you to reflect on those words by Toussaint and let's compare them with what President Aristide has been saying lately.



Post by T-dodo » Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:29 am

[quote]So, I still contend that I heard you right the first time. we simply don't agree. You are promoting passivity in front of the wicked enemy because you recognize his strength.[/quote]


I am sorry to say, man. But, you are confusing intelligence with passivity. That's what David did against Goliath and that's what all the other under developed countries, including those in the Caribbean, which by the way are doing better than we are, are doing. You can make as much noise as you want. But, if you do not have the power to back up your noise, you won't reach your goal and those that you are fighting against will not even pay attention. They pay attention only to those who understand the reality.

By the way, Toussaint was right then. What he said motivated the people like Dessalines, Christophe and others. To me that is good enough evidence. The example you are championning now app
ears to be rather a personal agenda of the leader instead of a people's agenda. I realize how hard you are working for it, thinking you are working for the people. But, my man, I have my doubts. For your sake, I hope I am wrong.



Post by T-dodo » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:36 pm

First of all, I am not an anti-Aristide, and whatever that means. As a member of the diaspora, and proud to be as well, I consider myself neutral when it comes to politics in Haiti. The only thing that matters to me is the welfare of its people and of the country. I don't have any political ambitions, and I could not care less whose party and who is leading the country as long as the country is prospering and the suffering of the Haitian people is diminishing.

As a neutral person, but also one who cares deeply about Haiti, I can't help watching what I consider the errors being made in Haiti by people who should have known better. I share those concerns with my fellow members on Ann Pale on this forum. Having been on the Corbett list before, I know those talks mean nothing other than just sharing knowledge and feelings with like-minded people.

Perhaps, I underestimated the trend of the discussion with Jaf. But, after reading his l
ast message, I got confirmation that we see it the same way. That conversation is substantive and is being held in a respectful manner. I have the utmost respect for Jaf, even though we believe in the use of different processes in the efforts towards solving the problems of Haiti. Based on my experience, I believe my approach is more likely to obtain results and he believes the same about his. Who is right? I honestly don't know. Only the future will tell!

I can assume that there are people who believe in decapitating Lavalas. I am not one of them. But, I realize its potential and believe that Lavalas should be strengthened for the best of Haiti. Is the way to do that is to return Aristide to power at all costs? I have my doubts and expressed them in the previous posts. I know how passionate Jaf feels about its views. And I certainly appreciate the fact that, despite his passion, he respectfully continues to point out to me where he thinks my arguments don't hold. Perhaps, he would have wished I did
i not raise that issue. But, I think it is important to debate it. In the process it should strengthen our country and inform.

Marilyn, as usual, you are always the voice of moderation and sensibleness. Like Jaf said, you are right in your analysis. At the same time, I beleive an honest debate benefits all and we all win, if we are honest about our intents. Perhaps the lesson of this discussion could be used as a model for public discourse in Haiti. But, I already told you I no longer believe in wishful thinking.



Post by Gelin_ » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:40 pm

[quote]...Jean-Jacques Rousseau said it in the 18th century: "You command nature by obeying it, not by fighting it." In this case, human nature that is!...[/quote]
Actually yes and no...

On a personal level we make sacrifices and necessary adjustments and changes every time we realize that some aspect of our own nature would lead us to self-destruction. Alcoholics and drug addicts seek counceling and treatment, for example.

On a social and national/state level, we have laws to keep our nature in check and balance. Some people love to drink and drive at the same time, but we have DUI laws. Others enjoy speeding beyond control, thus we have speed limit, the rules of the road, and police officers to enforce the law.

Now, in the case of Haiti, we have to bring back to memory these 2 specific things: the part of the constitution that limits a president to have only two terms (not consecutive)
in office, and another part that says how each term should be completed so that another person can serve also in the same office. These two elements of the 1987 Constitution were thought to be strong enough or good enough to prevent the establishment of a dictatorship as well as the repetition of a coup d'etat - two things that have marked haitian history over the last 200 years. Some would say that it's in the haitan nature (if I can speak that way) either to be under a dictatorship or to be jumping from coup d'etat to coup d'etat. So far, the law that was meant to protect the nation against one of the old habits (old habits die hard, they say) has failed once again.

You command nature by obeying it and by directing it as well...


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