Haiti murder convictions quashed

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Haiti murder convictions quashed

Post by admin » Tue May 10, 2005 9:29 pm

Haiti murder convictions quashedHaiti's Supreme Court has overturned the convictions of dozens of military leaders found guilty in 2000 of murder and torture.

They were convicted of mass killings during an attack on supporters of former President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in the shanty town of Raboteau in 1994.

The government of Prime Minister Gerard Latortue says it did not influence the judges' decision.

But Aristide supporters were outraged, calling it a "partisan" decision.

It says that the original court which tried the men had lacked the authority to hear the case.

"The court... overturns the judgment without referring to another court and orders that all those accused be released if there are no further charges against them," the Supreme Court said in a 3 May ruling released on Tuesday.

T
he trial was carried out in 2000 in the absence of most of the accused, many of whom were in exile. Some have since been jailed, but it is not clear exactly how many.

Following Tuesday's announcement, AFP news agency reported that the court has set free 14 of the officials.

The report did not name them, but Louis-Jodel Chamblain, one of the leaders of last year's uprising against Mr Aristide, could be among them.

At least 15 people died in the raid on Raboteau, a seaside shanty town in north-west Gonaives.

It targeted supporters of Mr Aristide, who was democratically elected president in 1991 but ousted the same year.

He was returned to power in 1994, with US support. Last year he was overturned for a second time.

'Hateful'

Before reports on the court's decision were confirmed, Interim Prime Minister Gerard Latortue said Haitian judges reached their conclusions freely.

"All our lives we have fought against the in
terference of the executive in judicial affairs," he told the Associated Press news agency.

Later one of Mr Latortue's aides told Reuters news agency: "The government had nothing to do with the decision of the Supreme Court, which is part of an independent power."

But Gerard Gilles, a former senator in Mr Aristide's Lavalas Party, said the ruling proved the opposite.

"This shows the current government is partisan, revengeful, hateful and not serious about justice," he said.

The US lawyer who had helped to prepare the case against the convicted men, Brian Concannon, called the decision a complete reversal of the long effort to establish justice in Haiti.

"The trial... stood for the possibility of justice in Haiti. It was praised as a landmark in the fight against impunity," he said.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 531737.stm

Published: 2005/05/10 22:47:06 GMT

© BBC MMV

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Post by admin » Tue May 10, 2005 9:59 pm

It's kind of simpler that way...

All the masks have been dropped. This government has made a virtue of persecuting Yvon Neptune and countless other Lavalas sympathizers, while it has praised FRAPH co-founder Jodel Chamblain as a freedom fighter. Why would a freedom fighter spend his days in jail anyway? Now, Toto Constant may also return to Haiti, along with all those who were implicated in the massacre in Raboteau because they now have a true champion in this virtuous government of the Republic of the Braves (read: those who are courageous enough to rape, maim, and kill defenseless civilians).

But Yvon Neptune? He should die of course! Was he not the Prime Minister of the preceding regime?

Two nagging questions though: The current government officials, will they not be ex-government officials in a matter of months (or has the system been permanently rigged to insure the protection of their
freedoms?)

So thought Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein at some point. Prudence would dictate not to trust one's masters so blindly.

And the other: the liberated "freedom fighters", aren't they going to continue doing the only thing they know how to do?

Can a leopard change its spots? Haitian society should be very scared at this point, due to the recklessness of a vengeful, hateful, short-sighted government.

We can all see clearly now.

Shellony

Post by Shellony » Wed May 11, 2005 12:24 am

I knew this government was "anti-Haiti" but I never expected to see them go this far, not even in my dreams. I ask myself several times if I read it right, if it's real. I get angry; I calm down; I think; I cry then I smile and laugh. I do all with a mixture of hatry and love, pity and codemnnation. And at the end I really do not understand any of these feelings.

At the end, I find myself heading toward that painful road I took last year and remembering how tortuous and torturous it was, I quickly turn and stand still. I stand so that I can take time to really think about alternatives, about a better road.

Shelony

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed May 11, 2005 10:23 am

[quote]...Haitian society should be very scared</B> at this point, due to the recklessness of a vengeful, hateful, short-sighted government...[/quote]
Especially Kplim and all those intellectuals and university students who thought that somehow they were fighting the good fight. Se kan w pran w konnen!

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed May 11, 2005 11:35 am

[quote]This is a prime example of what will happen when we disrespect the constitution...[/quote]
That's the point. If those haitian intellectuals cannot accept the fact that the law of the land must be respected by the inhabitants of the land, then there is no hope for Haiti, and there will never be peace and progress.

Regarding the GNBistes you mentioned, tout tipiti yo pran sezisman. Yo te konprann se jwèt.

gelin

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Thu May 12, 2005 5:52 am

Michel wrote:
[quote]Fok nou fe atensyon pase ke konpoteman sa byen kel pozitif se vre, kreye ou rezilta negative (cause and effect) ki farouche anpil moun hayisyen kou etranje ki ta vle ede payi d'Hayiti. [/quote]

I agree with this one. The same I disagree with Americans or other citizens who think that their problems are catalized by Foreigners. Guys, remember, we are living in other foreign countries. We have to be very careful with our strong nationalist attitude.

Then, Michel wrote:
[quote]Gelin e lot kamarad yo sou sit la, se intelektyel ke nou ye to an fok nou sipote youn a lot!
Nou pa fe pati clas proletaria se vre, min rol nou se lidechip, se reflechi pou pep la, bali limiye poul sa ouwe pi kle. [/quote]

Non Michel, that is very wrong. Se pa poutEt nou nan menm klas, nou oblije sipOte on seri de moun kap desann kanson yo sou moun...

That is (said to be), as
always 100% Republican. Bush cannot be wrong, cause he is a republican like Us.

Tounen sou sa Gelin di a. He is very right. Si neg ki tap mande pou Aristide ale yo gen konsyans (which I doubt strongly), kounye ya, yo tap fE tankou Jida (based on that little story book), pann tEt yo.

L'union fait la force,
leonel

DPean

Re: Haiti murder convictions quashed

Post by DPean » Thu May 12, 2005 8:08 am

  • [quote]The government of Prime Minister Gerard Latortue says it did not influence the judges' decision[/quote].
Is not the minister of justice, Mr Gousse (talking about Chamblain, Tatoune and others), who said a a few months ago that the sentence of those previously convicted people should be forgiven because of services rendered to the country?
Those people talk from both sides of their mouth. You can't really trust anything they say. They have their own agenda that they are following, and respecting the constitution is not part of it.

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Thu May 12, 2005 3:24 pm

[quote]...Gelin, please note that intellectuals and university students are usually sparkles of revolutions, and I and others from this forum believe that they were fighting the good fight, however, the outcome was random, and later revealed to be devastating....[/quote]
Michel, I agree with the first part of your statement when you say that intellectuals and university students are usually sparkles of revolutions. That's historically acurate and I have nothing to say against that. However, when you say that you believe they were fighting the good fight I have to disagree with you (and strongly), unless good means bad and bad means good. You cannot be fighting the good fight when your outcome is " random ". What was the reason for the fight in the first place? If you fight and don't know what's coming out of your struggles, how can that be the good fight? In creole, they say "ou pakap antre nan won san ba
ton." In addition, when you fight to break the constitutional order in a country like Haiti that was making its first steps toward democracy and elections, how can that be called the good fight? I disagree.

[quote]Why? Due to lack of planning, cooperation, and dialog among the leaders of concerned parties.[/quote]
False!!! Kplim who was obviously one of the most important proponents of the " Option Zero " made a lot of promises to the nation - to fulfill after the " rache manyòk ". Do you want to review some of the promises? The same with Danny Toussaint who promised peace within " 48 hrs " after the " dechoukay ". Do you remember that?

[quote]Nevertheless, they acknowledged that they made an error of judgment, and realized that what they have now isn't what they were expected.[/quote]
I don't know that. Bring me some light please.

[quote]Gelin e lot kamarad yo sou sit la, se intelektyel ke nou ye to an fok nou sipote youn
a lot![/quote]
M panse se sa nap fè la a nan brase lide sou ann pale, ak respè youn pou lòt. kenbe la.

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Fri May 13, 2005 9:28 am

[quote]...I am still maintained that the fight was good. The fight was good at that time because the University students were forcing Aristide to dialog, and not to overthrow him. This unfortunate aftermath came later and inadvertently. But so what![/quote]
I disagree. It was a bad fight for the nation. No matter how you look at it, the nation has jumped backwards because of this fight. That's why so many people feel disappointed today even after they've won. They realize that after all they may have lost something more important with that supposed victory.

gelin

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Post by admin » Fri May 13, 2005 10:17 am

[quote]The students' goal was to force Aristide to revise the senatorial election. They were convinced that Aristide couldn't win the majority or the totality of the parliament. The students were questioning their leader's integrity.

Instead, what Aristide did?

He blasted the University students' butt with his “Chimeres” who beat the shit out of them, their, professors, and Deans, live on national and world TV's.

Illiterate thugs beating the crap out of future leaders of Haiti!

And you call that Democracy and constitutionally elected behavior of a leader toward his people!

... ... ... the University students were forcing Aristide to dialog, and not to overthrow him. This unfortunate aftermath came later and inadvertently.[/quote]

Michel certainly has a right to his opinions. But what truly worries me is "his version" of the facts. It appears to me that Michel is t
rying to reconstruct History. I do not at all remember that the student's goal was "to force Aristide to revise the senatorial election". The entire spin of Michel's delivery is highly suspect to me, from beginning to end. At the present, I do not have the time to dig into this, but I would truly appreciate it if someone could verify for me what truths and falsehoods there may be in Michel's version of the facts. I am not truly looking for another opinion (though everyone is welcome to state theirs). I just want to judge what Michel says on this forum in the light of historical accuracy. I hope that I will find some contributions in that regard.

Thank you.

Anacaona_

Post by Anacaona_ » Fri May 13, 2005 12:35 pm

Michel Wrote:
[quote]The students weren't responsible for Aristide's overthrow per se. Their protest was a request to the Aristide's government for dialog and fairness to the senatorial elections. However, the movement was high jacked by the infiltration of the GNBs, Group 184, and others forces (national and international) who jumped on the opportunity to make a final blow once and for all to get rid of Aristide. [/quote]

Michel, if I can remember, three members of my family went to Haiti in June of 2003, one student from Sciences Humaine told them that Flag day was the last national holiday the president was going to celebrate. So I don't think that they wanted any sort of dialogue with the government.

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Fri May 13, 2005 1:06 pm

If Michel is not accurate from a purely historical standpoint, his analysis/interpretation cannot be just.

gelin

Anacaona_

Post by Anacaona_ » Sat May 14, 2005 10:55 am

Michel,
It was not the student's view. It was the idea being circulated in the whole school.

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Post by admin » Sun May 15, 2005 6:44 am

Clear-eyed and sober analysis, Serge. I, too, felt that Michel was spinning History faster in his (web) recount of the students' role than the best varieties of French and American spiders. It is important for Michel to understand that this is not ok, because that is precisely how History gets distorted for the future generations. The falsehoods get into the archives. When they go unchallenged (and this is not a matter of attacking the personality of whoever is responsible for introducing the falsehoods, rather it is a matter of attacking squarely the falsehoods themselves, as tiresome as this may feel to some of us), then much later perhaps, when someone accesses the archives while doing some research, they come upon the falsehood, and if it stayed unchallenged in this group of educated and "critical mind" readers, one may simply accept the falsehood as truth. This is why I think we a
ll bear some kind of responsibility here towards our fellow Haitians, and the next generations. Who knows if Windows on Haiti will not be a good place for research one day for your children? So, I urge from all of you a lot of patience. Attacking a person does not have nearly as much value as attacking a falsehood. Because, soon we are all forgotten, but our ideas, our writings live on. Whether we intend to or not, we are shaping our legacy. Our silence contributes to OUR legacy, when we do not challenge what we know to be false. It will not matter AT ALL if you were right in your heart, if you have failed in defending the truth.

[quote](And Michel, it is not a matter of "all of us we love the guy"),[/quote]
Thank you again, Serge, for bringing this out. Michel, this was simply uncalled for. I, for one, do not at all subscribe to the often malicious theory that one has to be a fanat
ic of Jean-Bertrand Aristide to defend matters of constitutionality and democracy in Haiti. There are PRINCIPLES at play here that are much larger than ANY GIVEN PERSONALITY. Yes, as Serge noted, we missed on a great opportunity to solidify democratic transitions in Haiti. Yes, once more, we have been the stooges of colonial powers. But the people of Haiti, through all of their suffering are showing the world, surprisingly, that true democracy and freedom resonate still in their hearts, in spite of the ravages of racism, imperialism, and the repeated assaults of some extremely undemocratic so-called leaders of the Free World.

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Sun May 15, 2005 6:46 am

Sergo,

As always, great piece! I believe that we will overcome. Although, I still do not agree with having Selection in November... Unfortunately we will have it the Republican's way.

Now, my question is this: What should be our plans for those of us who do not trust the Actuality and Future of Haiti???

We really need to have plan B,C etc. Can we or will we move towards Progress after the S Day (selection a la gwo ponyet)?

It would have been so Easy to work together. Haitians from all social classes. Haiti is first.

L'union fait la force (no joke)
leonel

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Post by admin » Sun May 15, 2005 1:19 pm

Michel, the students' involvement in the GNB movement had nothing to do with parliamentary elections. Period. Which makes your statement false, in my view.

Secondly, on this forum, I present ideas and debate other people's ideas LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. How could you have failed to see that? That's the way it has been from the very beginning. I do feel that I have something to contribute, outside of occasional moderation, and I do it. I have written more opinion pieces on this forum than anyone else. However, I have ALWAYS invited others to match my efforts with contributions and debates of their own. I have never stood back as a moderator (nor have you presently convinced me that this is the best way to go). I do moderate on occasion, but guess what? EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM IS INVITED TO MODERATE AS WELL. We are all expected to act like reasonable, intelligent, and sensible human beings. I am THE edito
r of this forum, but I am not THE moderator. We ALL are moderators, at least those of us who care to be. But more than anything, I AM A DEBATER. I present my excuses to all those who woud prefer that I shut up. I just do not know how.

Anacaona_

Post by Anacaona_ » Sun May 15, 2005 3:30 pm

Michel Wrote:
[quote]I will still standing behind my thoughts, because just like the students, (I am not referring to the oppositions), I believe the fight was a request for an open exchange of ideas, respect, and fairness of the parliament elections, therefore, a good fight.[/quote]

I am not quite sure how the students were fighting a good fight or requesting an open exchange of ideas.

Michel, I was part of a forum with the university students in Haiti in 2003. These students did not want to accept any ideas different than their own. Just for having a different view, one was automatically classified as "Chimeres". When I realized how impossible it was to exchange ideas with them, I decided to stay out of the forum.

One of their biggest mistake was to criticized the president for celebrating Vertiere. We all know how important Vertiere is in the Haitian history. To forget about vertiere was to
say that our founding fathers made a mistake in saying no to slavery. So, Michel, was that a good fight?

Even today, it is still impossible to exchange ideas with them. I have contact with a couple of students fromm Sciences Humaine. I chat with them via Yahoo messenger at least three times a week. Whenever I ask them a question, or want to discuss the current situation of Haiti with them, they left. Just recently, I ask one of them what he thought of the decision made by the de facto regime on the Raboteau case, he left the room.

I have friends who were university students in 2003 who said that a lot of us university students feel that Haiti would have been better if it was still a French colony. I ask myself how can someone with no sense of patriotism can fight a good fight? In my view, they feel that loving Haiti implies loving Aristide. Since they can't love Aristide, therefore, they can't love Haiti.

I am sorry to say that my generation is a lost case. We have a lot of
students who never develop their thinking ability. For those of us who finish high school back home, I am sure that we can remember our classmates buying essays for baccalaureat. How can we expect anything from them? They never sit down and think for themselves. They have a "tete bien pleine" instead of a "tete bien faite". Therefore, whatever is said in the classroom by their professors, they just have to accept it since they have no substance to back up their argument.

This generation is so lost that our university students in Haiti are saying that black people can't govern themselves. And they proudly add that it was well explain at the university. How can they fight a good fight when they know that they can't govern themselves?

We need to do something so that we can save the next generation. We need to teach the next generation why it is important to love their country. Sometimes I ask myself what happen to "Lecon Civique et Morale" that we had back in elementary school. Then I
realized that we were so used to learning "pa ke" that we don't remember any of those things.

Until we all realize that we need to start over to save future generations, we just have to continue saying that what we see for Haiti, "Antwan nan gomien pa wel".

Rose Michel Edy Saint Fleur, Alias Anacaona!

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Mon May 16, 2005 10:27 am

[quote]...Gelin wrote
[quote]If Michel is not accurate from a purely historical standpoint, his analysis/interpretation cannot be just.[/quote]

I am not here to write history. I will leave it up to the Historians. My analyses are base on facts not fictions. You make your own interpretation! <I>Which revealed as usual to be preconceived.</I>[/quote]
All I need, Michel, is just one single example of preconceived interpretation on my part - just one.

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Mon May 16, 2005 10:49 am

[quote]...I ask myself how can someone with no sense of patriotism can fight a good fight?[/quote]
There is a very simple way to test the value of one's fight: Compare your pre-fight</B> condition with your post-fight/victory</B> condition. If you are better off after</B> your victory, then you fought a good fight. If not, then you do the math.

gelin

Anacaona_

Post by Anacaona_ » Tue May 17, 2005 12:03 pm

Jaf,

To say that a lot of these students don't know their history because of their age is an understatement.

Anacaona!

Shellony

Post by Shellony » Tue May 17, 2005 5:33 pm

Anacaona,
I really don't get what you mean by understatement. However, I would like to say that I agree with both you and Jaf on certain things. It is my experience (I talk to a lot of them) that these students for the most part do not think for themselves. And as Jaf said, a lot of them do not know their history and they DO depend on their parents to tell them certain things. And for some of these parents, it was a completely different history from what we know (bay kou bliye, pete mak sonje). The behavior of these students do not bother me that much.

What bothers me is when I see students who come from "mas pep la", who grew up being terrorized or at least seeing their parents or neighbors being terrorized and then just blindly followed the movement of the elite because they believe that the fact they set foot in a university, they have the same interest as the upper class.

Anacaona, I do not know if you do background
check on these people you talk to, but I do know the past of many students I talked to. Many of them are not from well off families. Many of them KNOW about the end of the Duvalier, the time between them and Aristide I, and even better about 1991-1994.

Koman? se memwa yo ki kout ou byen se avantaj yo ofri yo a ki tro bon pou ya ta sonje ki moun yo ye? Olye pou yo pran tan pou reflechi yo pito tounen you bann jako repet kap di sa yo tande moun di epi yo telman pale fo e rapid, yo kouvri sila yo ki ta vle di you lot bagay.

When I used to participate in the forum on the university website, it was always a problem to say something that is not approved by the GNBists without being labeled "chimère". From time to time there were a few people who identified themselves as students of the state university of Haiti who tried to speak up seriously about some serious matter concerning the university or the country. Their voices were always engulfed by many loud voices crying "CHIME". It was always
like that. There were even threats to people who dare talk against GNB. As Jaf mentioned, these students existed but they did not have a voice.

Jaf mentioned that Kiskeya University is one of the important institutions in the country but Jaf, do not say that to a student at FASCH or some other "facultes" at the State university, you will be called Chime (and believe me, I am not making it up) Anyone who participated in their forum during the month leading to the coup/kidnapping/resignation of president Aristide can confirm that. Pour plusieurs, il n'y a qu'une universite en Haiti. They do not understand one university or one good university is not enough for our young people. They do not understand that one medical school that accept 100 students in Medicine, 30 in Pharmacy and 20 in Medical technology is not enough to solve the medical problem faced by our country. They do not undersatnd that one school of agronomy forming mainly agronomists for the office in the capital city or other cit
ies cannot relieve the problems faced by our peasants. I could go on and on about other specialties but I mentioned those two because I believe that they are very important issues that we face as a nation (food and health)

As Anacaona stated earlier, my generation has serious problems. To many of us (people of my generation), it feels so comfortable and easy to avoid challenges, to follow teachers' ideas instead of thinking and analyzing for ourselves. I remember on the forum at the university website, there was an article posted by someone in Canada (I think a graduate student) about the theory of light and color. The name of the student did not look Haitian but I could have mistaken. The article talked about an experiment that separated light of mixed wavelength into its different components as was done by (Maxwell I think). Contrary to what we learn in Physics, the author of the article stated that when all the 7 wavelengths of the visible spectrum were mixed,a gray light was produced instea
d of a white light expected. He said that was his observation. That was the data he collected.

He talked about a number of details in his design of the experiments, and the results he got that I do not remember exactly. Then, he discussed the results and challenge the idea that white is the presence of the entire visible spectrum and that black is the absence of all the visible wavelengths. He said that he saw gray light which is a mixture of white and black when all the seven colors are present and not white which means all of them or black which means none of them.

Then he went on talking about whiteness and blackness, balance between the two and why in his views a white scientist would want "all" being "white" and "none" being "black". He talked about the impact of the known theory on "race" or ethnic groups especially Black people and white people (although I have never seen a white person) and the issues that are raised by it. Then he concluded that natural light is not white but
gray (a mixture of black and white)

The first student to react to the article said and I paraphrase, only a "chimè" would say something like that; we do not need you, chimè, to teach us physics; this is something we learn already; If we need to know about light or anything in physics, all we need to do is to open a physics book; We will find what we need. I was waiting for another student to tell the student how science is learned; unfortunately, there were none.

I was really disapointed by that. I expected university students to be open minded but I did not find that.
I thought they would have challenged the setting of the experiment, the design, or/and the discussions. I thought they would have tried to identify any possible bias in the collection of data, flaw in the design, or something in the discussions. But they did not. I asked myself what do they think when something in an evolving science made its way in a book and one edition later, they see something conflicting, what do
they do? Do they stick to what they "knew" or do they try to understand both of them and find which one is true (at the moment).

For exemple, for us in science, we know that there are a lot of things we do not understand. There are a lot of things we are only beginning to understand and there are many things we think we get but later discover that we did not. That's Science. For many of these things, we make theories (although not in the sense of the theory of light). It is not surprising to find, a few years or many years later, that the fact is completely different. If we have very good data to back our new thoughts up, we accept the fact that what we believed before is wrong and we are still open to completely new ideas if later on, better technology allows us to better design our experiments and collect data with less error.

If we are students, and our minds are not open, we won't be good learners and won't be able to apply what we learn through time. I could go on and on about w
hy this is the case with many of our students but I am already way tooooo loooong with my post; so I stop here.

Shelony

Anacaona_

Post by Anacaona_ » Tue May 17, 2005 5:45 pm

All I meant to say by understatement was that a lot of our university students are not 19-20 year old kids. We all know that we have a lot of grown-ups at the state university of Haiti, people who are in the late 20's and early 30's. They have all lived through the time following 02/07/86 till 1990 and from 09/30/91-10/15/94. So we should not lift their responsibility and place it on their parent's back.

Anacaona!

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed May 18, 2005 10:30 am

At one point, I considered joining the forum at http://www.haiti-universite.org but in my view the atmosphere wasn't good enough for thoughtful and respectful debates. So, I kept my distance.

gelin

Shellony

Post by Shellony » Wed May 18, 2005 12:37 pm

That was a wise decision Gelin. Mwen te gaspiye anpil tan nan diskisyon sa yo ki pat janm abouti a anyen. There were very good topics but most of the students could not discuss anything (about school, environment, country, economy, health, education etc...) without mentioning chimere.

The few students who wanted to conduct serious discussions were called all sorts of names even if the topic had nothing to do with politics. Now when I think about it and after I have visited their site a few times between March 2004 and now, I can't help but think that the forum was created just for the promotion of GNB among the students. The "discussion" was hot in the months leading to the coup/kidnapping/resignation of the president. Right after the goal was achieved, the forum was dead. Now I can say that it exists only by name. From what I have read, a few people from outside the university have posted some messages to try to revive the forum it
seems that it died so long ago that CPR won't be successful.

There isn't even memory of what happened in the months preceding March 2004 since right after they "reorganized" the forum, destroying most old posts and creating a few new ones that were not better in term of having real respecful discussions.

I believe there are very good students and in fact, excellent students at the State University; I also believe there are great faculty members but many others are corrupted people who will fight till they die against any change that may benefit the people of Haiti at large. Unless we unite to fight the real fight, there will be no change.

Haitiens et haitiennes, jurons de combattre jusqu'au dernier soupir pour l'independance de notre pays comme disait Dessalines. Et unissons nous pour le faire.

Shelony

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed May 18, 2005 2:55 pm

Une lecture poétique de notre commune tragédie:

[quote]Qui Suis-Je?</B>

Je suis Haiti, autrefois la perle des Antilles.
J'etais verte, belle, et riche :
J'avais du cafe, du mais, de la canne-a-sucre.
Tout le monde avait envie de moi ;
J'etais un joyau pour la France.

Je suis Haiti, autrefois la perle des Antilles.
J'étais verte, belle, et riche :
J'avais du café, du mais, de la canne-à-sucre.
Tout le monde avait envie de moi ;
J'étais un joyau pour la France.

Indépendante depuis 1804,
Je suis la première république noire.
Et de partout pour l'homme noir,
Je suis devenue le symbole de la liberté,
Et pour le blanc, un symbole a étouffer.

J'étais liberée de l'esclavage,
Et les colons chassés de mon sol,
Parce que des hommes vaillants et de valeur :
Toussaint, Dessalines, Christophe, Capois, Pétion
Risquaient leur vie, combattaient pour ma liberté.

nJe suis maintenant l'environnement dégradé,
Je suis les montagnes dénudées,
Les vallées érodées,
Les ravins sans eaux,
Et les jardins sans récolte.

Je suis Port-au-Prince couverte d'immondices,
Les bidonvilles surpeuplées,
Les égouts regorgés de boue,
Les rues congestionnées,
Les marchands qui jonchent les trottoirs.

Je suis les 8.000.000 d'Haitiens,
Qui ne savent pas qu'ils appartiennent à une nation.
Je suis la jeunesse sans aucun sens de civisme.
Je suis l'homme de rue, le commercant, le fonctionnaire.
Je cherche à tort à exploiter ma nation.

Je suis les reseaux routiers délabrés,
Je suis le transport démodé,
Je suis une infrastructure inexistante,
Je suis l'ED'H, la Teleco, la CAMEP.
Je suis la base du sous-developpement.

Je suis une agriculture primitive
Qui ne peut nourrir un peuple affamé.
Je suis l'économie en faillite.
Je suis la gourde sans valeur.
Je suis le chômage perpétuel.

Je suis la corruption à tou
s les niveaux,
La mère des institutions étatiques.
Je corromps et enrichis les dirigeants.
J'appauvris le pays et je fais des millionnaires.
Je suis un cancer pour le pays.

Je suis la bourgeosie sans conscience.
J'empoche tous les tresors du pays,
Sans jamais y investir un sou en retour.
Si j'embauche c'est pour exploiter,
Quand j'exploite je le fais à outrance.

Je suis l'armée des coups d'état,
Demantelée au nom de la démocratie.
Je suis la police servile.
Je protège et sers le pouvoir.
Je matraque et liquide ceux-la qui s'y opposent.

Je suis Lavalas, tel est mon nom.
J'emporte tout avec moi sur mon passage.
J'erode les valeurs et valorise les vices.
Je promets la paix et regne par la violence.
Je suis Titid, espoir perdu d'une generation.

Je suis la Convergence Democratique,
Le repaire des politiciens vereux.
La politique est mon gagne-pain,
Ma politque est celle de l'autre.
Je me fous des cris du peuple.

Je suis
la presse mal formée
Et qui pourtant informe.
Je suis d'une neutralité relative.
Je fustige le pouvoir,
Et fais mon lit avec l'opposition.

Je suis un peuple moribond.
Je suis les sans-abris, les affamés.
Je suis l'orphelin du sida, le « restavek ».
Je suis le paysan appauvri.
Je suis les masses desespérées.

Je suis le vaudou obscurantiste,
Je regne dans les tenebres.
Je suis la racine des maux du peuple.
De jour je suis votre culture,
De nuit je suis votre pire terreur.

Je suis le protestant, le catholique.
Je me reclame du Christ,
Et je vis comme Lucifer.
Je suis le pasteur mercenaire
Et le prêtre qui politise l'évangile.

Je suis 200 ans d'histoire.
Je suis 1804, faite d'épopée et de gloire,
Je suis 2004, faite de misère et de honte.
Je suis l'haitien, hélas ! trop fier de son passé
Et qui n'a aucune solution pour le présent.

Qui suis-je ?

Je suis vous, je suis l'autre
Je suis le démuni, je suis le nanti.

Je suis l'analphabète, je suis l'éduqué
Oui je suis tout ça, une contradiction !
Et pourtant je suis l'espoir d'une Haiti meilleure.

Bonne fete Haiti !

Patrick J. Honore, P.E., Avril 2004

Source: http://www.haiti-universite.org/modules ... le&sid=151
[/quote]

Shellony

Post by Shellony » Wed May 18, 2005 6:43 pm

I wrote earlier
[quote]I remember on the forum at the university website, there was an article posted by someone in Canada (I think a graduate student) about the theory of light and color. The name of the student did not look Haitian but I could have mistaken. The article talked about an experiment that separated light of mixed wavelength into its different components as was done by (Maxwell I think). Contrary to what we learn in Physics, the author of the article stated that when all the 7 wavelengths of the visible spectrum were mixed,a gray light was produced instead of a white light expected. He said that was his observation. That was the data he collected.

He talked about a number of details in his design of the experiments, and the results he got that I do not remember exactly. Then, he discussed the results and challenge the idea that white is the presence of the entire visible spectrum and that black is the absence o
f all the visible wavelengths. He said that he saw gray light which is a mixture of white and black when all the seven colors are present and not white which means all of them or black which means none of them.

Then he went on talking about whiteness and blackness, balance between the two and why in his views a white scientist would want "all" being "white" and "none" being "black". He talked about the impact of the known theory on "race" or ethnic groups especially Black people and white people (although I have never seen a white person) and the issues that are raised by it. Then he concluded that natural light is not white but gray (a mixture of black and white)
[/quote]

I wanted to correct certain things I did not state right about what the publication from the guy in Canada. The author was Haitian (canadian fron haitian origin). It was the theory of Newton not Maxwell. He was not the one who conducted the experiments but commented on what has been observed by others. And
in his view the gray light is applied to the prism instead of white because the experiment is conducted in a dark chamber. So, white light + dark chamber give gray. It was posted in December 2003 on the university website and the discussions took place around the same time. Whereas the discussions on the forum can no longer be found (they were deleted or relocated), his article is still there. That's how I could see that I was wrong in many of the details and I am sorry for that. But as I said before he was called chimere for that.

Shelony

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