Visit Haiti More Often

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JeanFrancoisBertrand

Post by JeanFrancoisBertrand » Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:42 pm

My dear friend, happy for you; but sorry most of us will not be joining you at Guilou beach on New years eve for we will be not in mourning but in a period of deep reflexion, soul searching, trying to understand why we're here, why we had to leave, why so many of our countrymen are living like dogs in the bahamas and Dominican republic. Understand it is not just the american media that is reporting the bad news about Haiti, read and watch the haitian media, visit some haiti sites on the net and you will discover that the crisis is real, our people are dying in misery. Yes, you and your wife spent lots of money while there but this little random act of kindness toward the people and some of the businesses is similar to acts of charity. Yes we all need to be charitable towards our people but charity is no substitute for social justice. You mention that we all need to go there and invest our money, my friend, when thinking about investing money in
a country, three things are required and I will call them the 3 "S" Safety-Security-Stability. Unfortunately Haiti does not offer any of those 3 components. In this world my friend we all have choices and you have chosen to go back and live under a system that denies the most basic human rights to the majority of the people. I can only wish you good luck.

Jonas
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Post by Jonas » Mon Dec 08, 2003 7:11 pm

Bertrand,

You want safety,stability ,security?
Then ,you should be encouraging Tourism,not discouraging it.
Look at what tourism did for the Cuban economy.It practically saved it.
Talking about safety,Jamaica has one of the highest homicide rates of anywhere in the world ;Jamaica has also a vibrant Tourism economy.
Tourism is the backbone of the Jamaican Economy.
What about Colombia with its 30 year old civil war.
Tourism provides foreign currency,it provides jobs.

What comes first the chicken or the egg?

Jean Colin

Haitian Tourism

Post by Jean Colin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:44 am

President Aristide in his speech on January 1st, 2004 has indicated his desire to significantly increase foreign investment in Haiti. Who is doing the follow up on projects that are already in consideration. The investors are still waiting.

17-"Vu les avantages offerts par la nouvelle loi sur les zones franches et le code d'investissement, d'ici 2015, dans un climat de stabilité politique, de sécurité pour tous et de bonne gouvernance, les investissements directs étrangers pourront atteindre plus de 400 000 000 de dollars américain. C'est possible car : L'UNION FAIT LA FORCE"

After this current nonsense that is going in Haiti, we need to take tourism seriously and start to rediscover and rebuild our nation tourism industry and open up Haiti and make her available to all the beneficiaries of the Haitian revolution not just the people were born on the island.

Our selfishness got us nowhere. Let us be smarter
in the future and share Haiti with the sons and daughters of all the others slaves for whom our heroes also liberated that land. It's time to give them those rights that we have kept so foolishly just for ourselves for so long. It would be to our benefits and Haiti's best interest to be more honest and fair with our fellow Africans in the Americas! We are acting like the affranchies in our early history who kept the lands of Haiti for them by taking cover under some erroneous inheritance laws. We must do better in 2004. Haiti belongs to all of us.

What do you think Tortuga Island (Ile de la Tortue) would look today if it were Cuban, Jamaican or Dominican territory? What wrong with us, Haitians? They are investors who want to develop that island big time -- hotels, casinos, convention centers, shopping malls etc. How long do they have to wait for an answer and to begin serious negociations? And how long are we going to sit back and let our government officials act as if Haiti was their private prope
rty.

We are all guilty of abuse and neglect insofar Haiti is concern and we look so foolish acting as if it was somebody else problem to clean it, protect it and help our country grow. What can we do about our country's tourism industry? Well, we have the money, we have the network of friends who will go visit with us as tourists, we should handled Haiti's Tourism from abroad. Those guys in Haiti don't know sh-- about tourism and can hardly interface with the foreign tourists and investors that do stop by by chance. Let us take our tourism industry back and rebuild it from scratch! I don't advocate chaos and insubordination but we don't have to and we should not have to wait for some permits that's going to take another 5 years to produce in order for us to start rebuilding our nation. Let's begin it now and will figure how to right the papers and finalized the contracts later.

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Haiti for all descendants of slaves: Now rather than later!

Post by admin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:46 am


Jean, we are currently living in a near total state of anarchy in Haiti today. One of the fundamental reasons for that is Haitians' disregard for the Law and the Constitution.

You see some "unfair" limitations in our property laws with respect to investments by foreigners. Granted you do not consider African descendants in America, "children of slaves", foreigners in our homeland because Dessalines led the Haitian Revolution for all of them, be they United Staters, Jamaican, Cuban, Trinidadian, Jamaican, etc. Since they share equally in the dream of our forefathers, I guess you would say that they are all Haitian, regardless of where they were born, where they reside, what nationality they claim as their own, which language they speak, what specific culture defines them. It appears that what you are in fact saying is that all sons and daugh
ters of Africa, whose forefathers were slaves on the American continent, should be considered "Haitians" by virtue of their ancestral history. What will be the litmus test? Since many of us are of mixed races, I imagine that it would have something to do with color, white people excluded... that is the "pure white" people, am I correct? If you are not a "pure white" American, then you are a descendant of slaves in America, therefore a "Haitian", and hence you would have equal rights to property in Haiti as any native Haitian. This is what I am reading in your notes. Let me know if that is correct. If I am, this would of course require a correct constitutional interpretation that no doubt would take years, given the slow and weak nature of our legislative and judicial institutions. So, you seem to be saying, what the heck with it all, let's circumvent the current laws, and we'll worry about it later. We have the money to do it, they cannot stop us, what are we waiting for?

If I am correct in m
y understanding of your advocacy, then I have several questions that I would like to ask you:

1) Do Haitian people living in the islands, countryside and cities of Haiti need to be EDUCATED about your vision or should we rush in the investments before that?

2) You said that "we will figure how to right (sic) the papers and finalize the contracts later". And what happens to the investments in the off chance that we cannot write the papers and finalize the contracts later ? Are your non-Haitian "Haitian" investors willing to assume that risk right now? What guarantees would you offer them?

3) With respect to the investment opportunities, just how much bounty there is in Haiti to share with all of our more privileged black brothers and sisters born outside of Haiti?

4) Could you specifically tell us which laws or articles of Haiti's Constitution need to be changed now or in the future, and that we may purposefully ignore for the moment in order to devel
op our nation?

5) Going back to my original statement, we are living in a state of anarchy today due in large part to our disregard for the Law and the Constitution. Aren't you advocating more of the same?

Though there are some subthemes in your proposal that merit further examination (Haitianity and racial ideology), I share with you, my brother, the sincere desire to see Haiti move along the path of development and out of its current backwardness. You do not need to defend that desire. I believe that we all share it on this forum. However, your suggested approach raises many of the questions above and perhaps some more from other forum members. Are you ready to answer them?

I hope so. I look forward to your answers.

Guy S. Antoine

Jean Colin

Post by Jean Colin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:03 pm

[quote]Granted you do not consider African descendants in America, "children of slaves", foreigners in our homeland because Dessalines led the Haitian Revolution for all of them, be they United States, Jamaican, Cuban, Trinidadian, Jamaican, etc. Since they share equally in the dream of our forefathers, I guess you would say that they are all Haitian, regardless of where they were born, where they reside, what nationality they claim as their own, which language they speak, what specific culture defines them. It appears that what you are in fact saying is that all sons and daughters of Africa, whose forefathers were slaves on the American continent, should be considered "Haitians" by virtue of their ancestral history. What will be the litmus test? [/quote]

The answers are: yes, yes, yes! The litmus test is their willingness to fight or die rather than living as slaves again. "Liberte ou la mort": Isn't that the most f
undamental element in Haitians' identity?
I suggested the following as Haiti's Bicentennial Message to the African-American Community: On January 1, 2004, Haiti will celebrate 200 years of Independence, as the first Free Black Republic of the world, following our victorious battles over the evil of slavery and colonialism for the benefit of all oppressed men and women in the Americas. This good news did not reach the great majority of its beneficiaries in the United States for reasons that you will understand.

We hope that you can help Haiti deliver in the year 2004, what our freedom fighters were not able to accomplish in 1804, because of the lack of communications and access available to us and our fellow maroons in the Americas: a genuine gift of citizenship and a sincere offer to share our freedom, our land, our flag and our identity with the rest of the family.

In 1804, Africans in the Americas had only one choice: to be Haitians and free or be a non citizens anywhere else and a sl
ave.

Isn't that the most beautiful part of Haitian history?

Another anecdote was Christophe would stop slave ships that came close to our shores and rather than fights those immoral merchants would make an offer to purchase their "human cargo" for an agreed price and set our brothers and sisters free on Haitian soil.

Ins't that the most beautiful part of Haitian history?

Furthermore, according to the Constitution of 1805 any run away slaves or maroons as soon as they would set foot on Haitian soil were granted Haitian citizens no questions asked.

Ins't that the most beautiful part of Haitian history?


This promise is still or should still be honored today as far I am concerned especially in regard to our children born in lands not yet liberated in the Americas for whatever reasons. Our selfishness has been our curse and one of the contributors to Haiti's isolation.

It's ironic that our kids born in Hawai are American citizens, can be ordered by presid
ent Bush to go die in Iraq to defend the interest of Halliburton and yet some among us would denied them their birth right as beneficiaries of the Haitian Revolution of 1804.

Dessalines would be so disappointed and sinken by Haitian mentality today.

Jean Colin

Post by Jean Colin » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:40 pm

"The stuff you wrote above reads more like that of someone trying to discredit the Pan-African liberation movement with weird, pseudo-nationalist ideas that are ill-developed, at best and perhaps even ill-intentioned"(Jak)
"...the enemy is getting more arrogant and vicious every day..." Why would we want to act and sound like them???
This characterization is uncalled for and inappropriate. We can do better! Furthermore, I hope we can handle more than one issue at a time. We all love Haiti and are very concerned about these shameful acts taking in the bicentennial year of our country independence and the safety of our relatives. My understanding was that this subject was about tourism and ways to revive that industry in Haiti. I sincerely believe that Haitians are define by our victory in 1804 there is nothing else in my mind that distinguished us from any other individuals of African descents in the Americas exc
ept our formers owners and that there is nothing more Pan-African than the Haitian revolution and verse versa. Anyway, I enjoy this forum a great deal and look forward to earn your trust. This is what our community needs the most. Peace!

Leonel JB

new user comments

Post by Leonel JB » Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:54 pm

Sorry, I was following the debate and really I was moved by everyone's opinion.
I have myself a QUESTION: WHO ARE THE ENEMIES?
Myself, I think if I can try to be judgemental, I can say that, "WE ARE OUR OWN ENEMI". And I do not think that we can blame the International communities for our misfortune.
Let's be a little sarcastic about it, We've been Independent for 200 years, yet, we have more COUP d'ETAT than anyone else. We've been Independent, but we depend on the International communities more than any other nation. Do we have to rely on our past, on our greatness d'antan?
The past was wonderful,courageous, a great accomplishment,but, you can not hold rely on,it can and will keep you down. My point is: we really need to change our way of thinking,our philosophy. We need to love HAITI and not POWER (PATRIOTISM).We need more compassion(RESPECT).We need to listen to others(ACCEPTANCE).And, finally, we need to r
each a common ground(COMPROMISE).
I know that my opinions are very arrogant,I apologize for it.Do not take it as Imperative?
If I go back to the debate,I really think that all of you have very good and intelligent points,but, as stated earlier,by blaiming others on our problems we are feeding the evil called" SOUS DEVELOPEMENT". Haiti a atteint l'Apogee du sous-developement.While we are on the verge of civil war.I wish that we could communicate to the ones in Haiti presently and let them know that"NO MORE COUP D'ETAT".I am far from being an Aristide supporter,but, he is an elected president,he needs to finish his term. The International Community is not responsible for our MISERY.
N.B. When I say "WE", I am also included. Do not take it personal.
Take care

Jean Colin

A new vision --- a new direction -- a new identity

Post by Jean Colin » Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:17 am

Mon cher Guy:

You wrote: "You said that "we will figure how to right (write) the papers and finalize the contracts later." And what happens to the investments in the off chance that we cannot right the papers and finalize the contracts later? Are your non-Haitian "Haitian" investors willing to assume that risk right now? What guarantees would you offer them?

Let me start by saying how much you had me laughing about this new identity: non-Haitian "Haitian," this is great. I am not a lawyer but I think that one of the benefits of Caricom Membership and FTAA would be a mutual legal framework to give both parties protection under their "legal structure." May be our sister Erzidanto can help us. We have no trouble driving foreign cars...and I personally have no trouble operating under the "foreign laws" in FLORIDA -- why not in Haiti while we get our sh-- together. They might work better
and be more effectives then those Napoleanian laws we using right now.

We need to think out of the box ... to get out of this mess we are in today. We can have international partnerships incorporated under the laws of our partners' nations and states. It's done everyday by companies that we work for in the USA or Canada with Cayman Island registration papers.

3) "With respect to the investment opportunities, just how much bounty there is in Haiti to share with all of our more privileged black brothers and sisters born outside of Haiti?"

In the vision that I shared with you, Haiti is theirs just as it is yours and mine. We have over 27,000 Km2, I am sure we can find enough rooms for family members who wish to live among us. Think positive! Can you imagine, what influx of wealth and business opportunities would be generated by, let say to start, over 100,000 retirees and fellow beneficiaries of the Haitian Revolution who choose to relocate in a peaceful and well secured area in Haiti?


Let us not fail in our ability to dream big dreams. We have one of the greatest example in our History -- a young slave dreaming of freedom who ends building a nation -- we need to challenge ourselves more. Haitians have become too timid, lazy and selfish -- that goes for me too.

I am sure it's difficult to visualized it now with all this nonsense currently going on in Haiti but I guaranty you we will have better days in our beautiful Island.

It's within our hands and if you can conceive it, we will live.

Haiti and Haitians have survived and this is our only victory over Napoleon plans and during the past 200 years; now we need to build a nation with the help of all the beneficiaries of Haitian Revolution, we are willing to join us in this new battle for our dignity, our freedom and our people liberation from poverty and ignorance and self hatred.

We faked it for a long time and fooled the "blancs" for a while but the honest ones among us knew all along that the only th
ing the great majority of our brothers and sisters and Haitian Maroons had was mountains to hide from an evil world and the Citadel to scare the hell out of the enemies -- before they had helicopters and B1 bombers...

Our greatest asset is our love for our country, our history and our convictions that even in our darkest hours, we and our fellows Haitians will find a way to honor our motto: L' Union fait la Force! Together, We shall overcome! Let us relearn to trust one another and dream of peaceful moments and proud actions again in our community as begin the process of building a Haitian homeland where we can all fit in and choose to belong. Peace!

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