Haitians are devouring themselves...Again

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Post by Guest » Sun Oct 10, 2004 11:05 am

I hope others that support the cause of True Democracy in Haiti do participate in the letter writing campaign in the diaspora. We have to write to our congressmen, senators, and the press of our countries of adoption to decry what's going on in Haiti.

Futhermore, an NGO associated with the “Fammi Lavalas” party should be set up to receive aid and contributions to do social work in these neighborhoods that are at the forefront of the struggle for true democracy in Haiti. Many in the Haitian diaspora would be willing to contribute 20 to 100 dollars a month to support our brothers who are risking their lives or freedom for the struggle. These va-nu-pieds now called “chimè” have kids, wives, and parents to take care of. It would make a big diferrence for those that are locked up by Latortue dictatorship to know that their families will have access to a hot meal, clothes, and medical care.

I hope that Fammi Lavalas officials take
heed of that advice, and set up that charity to do social work in those neighborhoods.

Empress Verite

djaspora vote in ayiti

Post by Empress Verite » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:36 am

Sak Pase?

I applaud your efforts to enfranchise the Haitians in the djaspora Michel and I hope that your work is successful. However, I must agree with Jafrikayiti because it seems to me that the folks who live in Haiti and must bear the brunt of the political administration have to be enfranchised first. In the djaspora Haitians have other options however dangerous it may seem sometimes. I am a transnational Haitian and I was born in the US but spent my formative years in Haiti. I care about my rights in the US even though it is as dangerous for me to vote in South Florida where I live. This place has become a police state and we are spied on at every turn. The streets are monitored with cameras that can eavesdrop on conversations folks are having in cars or vehicles and your home is not off limits to Homeland security in their so-called search to discourage terrorism.

I'm sick of it but I realize that it w
as just as bad or worse when I lived in Haiti. And so I fully support the enfranchisement of poor people and everyone in Haiti equally above the djaspora vote issue. In addition, I suspect that the djaspora will be voting for the politicians on the wrong side of issues or the ones who are backed by the super powers.

stay strong.

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:56 pm

I have some concerns with a few of your statements...
First, let me tell you, A country can not govern itself???
No Country can...
Everybody wants to be the boss???
Does that sound familiar, USA or anywhere else?
Everybody protesting on the streets???
Is that against the law to protest?
The last Idiot?
Idiot is someone without intellect... You must be very bright!!!
Aristide left the country poorer??
I am not an Aristide supporter, but you are more than wrong my friend.
True Democracy??
What is true Democracy, does it exist anywhere?
Anyway, I like to listen to others to improve my intellect...
Ton ineptie a atteint l'apogee des sots.
Excuse my language!


Post by T-dodo » Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:37 pm


As usual, your opinions are sound and wise. Like you, I understand Ziggy's frustration, but I would like to add to this topic, and hopefully I would not disappoint him any more he was before.

Despite how inept Aristide was as a president - he failed to unite the country, his actions brought back French soldiers on Haitian soil after 200 years of independence - I thought democratically we were making progress. I was comparing our progress to the "glasnot" and "perestroika" of the Russian Gorbachev era. One would bring freedom, the other economic prosperity. Had Aristide managed to get a peaceful transition of power like Preval did, we would have started to have a history of democracy. Having lived all my life during the Duvalier era, that would have been major progress to me, even though economically, during the Aristide government, the indications were that the country did not take any step forward.

Ziggy, I damaged
relationships with many friends and family members living in Haiti when I tried to reason with them in a clear-headed way like Serge just did. What I asked them was too much for them to give. That is to give credit to your enemies when it's due. Unfortunately, their emotions were too strong to hear a different point of view. I hope I did not damage mine with you even before it starts. I believe we need people with opposing views in this forum to learn about our weaknesses and be able to improve on them, or to prove to ourselves the strength of our opinions. That's why we need you to be able to provide that little perspective sometimes that our bias prevented us from seeing. So, don't get mad. Please prove us wrong in a manner that is free of emotional interference. We will thank you for it because you would have taught us something we did not consider.



Post by T-dodo » Sun Oct 31, 2004 8:36 am

First of all, Serge, don't worry about long posts. We all write long ones. Yours are full of ideas and you are not redundant. Feel free to express yourself the best way you know how. For, complexed problems, like Haiti's, require complexed analysis. I am grateful for your clear, concise and well organized answers. It reminded me of the pleasure I had reading Guy Antoine's posts on the Corbett list!

Ziggy, I feel your pain, man. Why can't we have a leader strong enough to fix that mess! But, I am afraid one strong man alone can't do it. Not only we would need a strong leader, we would also need as strong people to assist him in the ministries. And also, a strong elite and a strong middle class. That is in the far fetched scenario that you can fix Haiti's problems in a short period of time of, let's say, 25 years. Israel, for example had that, which explained why they were able economically to build a country in such a short period of

The problem is that those Haitian leaders alone cannot reconcile the differences between the elite and the masses - too much history of acrimony and deceit - in such a short period of time. The mentality of people in Haiti at all levels must be changed. In other words, in my opinion, only a new generation of Haitians raised with a different mentality can change it. That's why I agreed with Serge in a post somewhere else that if you want real change in Haiti you have to target a new generation of Haitians who were not a witness of the past ten to fifty years of waste, mismanagement, hatred, lack of respect for private property, and lack of respect for the poors, the peasants, the restaveks, etc.

If you go back to world history, you would realize that human values always triumph over time. That means, the elite cannot continue to believe that they can keep the worthless - restaveks, peasants, poors, slums dwellers, etc.,- there without improving their social and economic conditions, and im
prove Haiti. Serge or Jaf indicated it below. Unless you improve their conditions they will never accept the status quo over time.

Democracy does not only mean freedom and self determination. It also means the right to a minimum basic human living conditions. That's where I thought the idea of a "glasnost" and "perestroika" for Haiti could be a good model to emulate, as a concept towards development and progress. It would allow people to distinguish between progress made on the freedom front and that made on the economic front.

You made a comparison with the Caribbean islands who were under British rules. There is a big reason why they went one way and us a different one. The British educated them while they ruled them. They had a model for self government after emancipation. The slaves, before their emancipation, were just slaves thirsty for freedom from bondage. They were not prepared to manage countries.

Anyway, my friend, watch for the sign in the leaders of Haiti who really mea
n business. Their first priority would be reconciliation. That's what the South Africans did. I mean, efforts to reconcile the differences between the massess and the elite. Without that, nothing done will work over time. It would be like building on a defective base. In the short term you can force things to people via a dictatorship that can impose itself. But overtime, we would have made steps backward instead of forward.


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