Religion and sexism

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Empress Verite

Religion, the church, sexism and abuse

Post by Empress Verite » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:04 am

Greetings Nekita and all:

I find it interesting and downright disturbing that with all the media coverage about the issue no one has come forward in the Haitian catholic church to discuss their experiences with abuse. I know for sure that in my town in Leoganne the priest had mistresses and children. He was killed in an accident. And also with the amount of child and sexual abuse that I knew of while growing up both in Haiti and the US I know that there was abuse in the Catholic church. In fact, I would go as far as to accuse the Protestant churches in Haitian communities of perpetrating the same abuses as I experienced it in my own life.

There are scholars working on the issue. One professor, Terri Rey at Florida International University's religious studies can be consulted for some of the issues. However, I fear that he is a missionary cloaked in a garb of liberal dogma and seductive breedin
g that has the majority of the poor Haitian populace drooling and the middle and upper class elite in want.

Keep writting about this issue there is a vast and I have seen some stuff about sexism and African American women in the same light that you wrote about it. Great line of inquiry.



Post by Gelin_ » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:45 pm

A quote from Bouli:

"...I don't know if you're still with me, <u>Jesus has also lost the revolution in the process</u>. Not because he was tortured to death on the Empire's symbol of “Père Lebrun “, because the Empire stole the story and switch the messengers...</B>"

Actullay he hasn't. Jesus himself warned future believers (and possibly truth-seekers) about the wolves that would come in sheep's clothings: "<U>Watch out</U> for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves." (Mat 7:15)</B>

The truth of the matter is that too many people associate the message of Jesus with what is merely a man-made religious system. In other words, most church-goers today simply do not take Jesus' warnings seriously, and they have paid and will continue to pay a very heavy price for that. Bouli, Jesus has not lost, nor has his message been conquered by the powers of darkness. What he sta
rted 2000 years ago is still around, but the counterfeit is obviously more popular. That's ok, too.



Post by Gelin_ » Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:30 pm


I see something slightly (maybe) different:

I only believe there's more than one true. We have found in history Jesus was a man made God in a man made religious system. The man had a family like everyone else. He was supposed to be an official leader to his nation. He rather become a spiritual leader who mentally equipped his people to resist a brutal colonization by a super Empire…[/quote]

Jesus started his movement way before the religious system we have today. However, (now, understand me well) he was not focused on equipping his followers to resist the brutal colonization of Rome. He equipped them first to identify evil in their own lives and resist it, to renew themselves, to start the new life from within, and to spread the message as best as they could. Now, the new way of life meant death for hundreds of his followers, exactly at the hands of roman soldiers and offi
ciers. Centuries later, Rome (then in decline) attemped to assimilate the new way of life (philosophy, religion....give it the name you want) because death and torture were not scary enough to force people to deny their faith. Then, and only then, we started to have a strong marriage between (so-called) christianity and the roman empire. Result: the roman catholic church first, and then the vatican, and so on...


Post by Gelin_ » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:13 pm


History teaches us that powerful nations or societies have always used anything at their disposal to pursue their own objectives, whatever they may be. If it's a tradition, they'll use it. If it's a religious system, they'll use it too. If it's just a favorable natural environment, that also will be used. A good example is christianity and Rome.

At first, adpets of the new way of life were persecuted and executed, beginning with Jesus himself who died crucified at the hands of roman soldiers. Next, his apostles were exiled, tortured and killed by Rome, all of this because they refused to worship the emperor as a god. But when it became more convenient for Rome to embrace the message rather than oppose it, guess what happened? Rome became christian officially - but with a theology different from what Jesus taught. Now the christians (Rome-style and by name only) were persecuting and killing non-christians, and the orders
still came from Rome. Where Jesus said "you should love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you", Rome said 'In the name of the Lord, destroy and kill your enemies'..and so on...

In spite of all this, however, I think that what Jesus started is still around and available today. That's what I have come to understand, and that's what I believe.



Post by Gelin_ » Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:35 pm

Hi Bouli:

Let me try to address your points one by one....

1. "...Rome built Christianity with Jesus..."

Rome did not build christianity. Rome tried to crush the new way of life by killing its leader first (Jesus), and by terrorizing, tourturing and destroying his followers. I could agree with you that Rome built <I>its own version of christianity.</I>

2. "...Can one have enemy without hate?..."

Absolutely. Our ancestors who were brought as slaves to the new world were hated by their masters. The potential slave was considered an enemy when he/she wasn't even aware of such a thing as a slave plantation in St-Domingue. Do you see what I mean? Someone can hate you because of your skin color or your ethnic background for example, and threat you as enemy even when you don't know. That's what Jesus was talking about, and that's also the principle Martin Luther King was following with his "power to love". Remember
, no matter what you do, it's always possible to find somebody who doesn't like you - for that's just the way it is. For those people, Jesus asks his followers to pray.

3. "Jesus....come out of a woman who remained virgin...?.."

A professor of genetics told me once that theoretically Jesus could have been born by parthenogenesis (when a female individual - plant or animal - gives birth without fertilization with male gametes). This event happens frequently in plants and lower animals and would not be a genetic impossibility for humans.

Bouli, I'll come back later to the more difficult questions..:-)



Post by Gelin_ » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:11 am

[quote]Gelin, I'll keep my argument concerning Rome with Christianity until History proven otherwise. This is what I've learned so far: Rome built The Roman Catholic Church to swallow Jesus resurrection's belief out of fear.[/quote]

You are right but the roman catholic church IS NOT what Jesus started in Jerusalem. He did not even start his group in Rome.

[quote]Sincerely, I don't see what you mean. I believe you pick an ironic example to press on the forum's nerves. Maybe you're just looking for excitements. Or like myself, you're another victim of “Les Frères de l'Instruction Chretienne”…You'll let us know…[/quote]

No Bouli, I am not this kind of guy. Maybe I wasn't clear enough, so let me try again. Yes I think you can have people consider you as their enemy even when you are not aware of it, or didn't do anything to deserve it. Racial or religious prejudice is a go
od example. Regarding the slave trade, we can safely agree that the captives didn't know where they were going because they had never made that trip before. I am as much haitian as you are, and as much appalled by the horrors of slavery as you are; but the slaves themselves (as Jaf explained it) were going about their own business in their own countries when they were 'captured'. That's what I mean by being an enemy without knowing it. Oftentimes in the US blacks are kidnapped and/or killed by racist whites when all they did was being different.

[quote]...what stops you from acknowledging a threat toward you? [/quote]

Well there are more than one way to react to a specific threat toward you.

[quote]I also like what your professor of genetics told you about Jesus. The only difference it keeps on happening to plants.[/quote]

I mentioned this just to point to the 'scientific' possibility of such an event. The term itself means 'virgi
n birth'. Now, each religion has their own 'internal logic' without which it could not exist for there would be no followers. In that context, people who believe that God created everything, and has the power to perform any kind of miracle would not have any problem seeing the virgin birth as a possibility - since the God who created us is all-powerful. This enters into the internal logic of that faith. On the other hand, people who believe there is no God at all will only laugh at the idea of the virgin birth, but would concede that it's a natural impossibility given that the same phenomenon has been observed in plants and lower animals. They would likely concede that the fact that it's not been observed in humans is NOT in itself a solid reason to say that it cannot or has never happened.

Kenbe la,


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