A very interesting interview with Mario Joseph

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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:39 am

A very interesting interview with Mario Joseph

Post by Serge » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:06 am

An exclusive Haiti Information Project interview with
Haiti's leading human rights lawyer, Mario Joseph

by Darren Ell

Mario Joseph became a human rights lawyer in the wake of Haiti's 1991 coup d'État, helping victims prepare their cases and articulate their demands at a time when human rights law was not even taught in law school. In 1995, he joined the Bureau des avocats internationaux (BAI) which seeks to defend the poorest members of Haitian society. He is outraged by the hypocrisy of the Canadian, American and French Governments who were behind the 2004 coup d'État; but he is determined to bring to justice all those who attempted to destroy Haiti's young democracy and who continue to violate the rule of law today. He spoke to Darren Ell from the offices of the BAI in Port-au-Prince.

Darren Ell: Help us understand the roots of human rights abuses in Haiti. First of all, does Haiti have the same human rights jurisprudence as Canada or the US?

Mario Joseph: There are small differences, but Haitian law is drawn from the same European system as other countries. Our legal codes are more or less copied from the Napoleanic codes. Unfortunately in Haiti we haven't been prolific with legislation.

DE: So the laws exist, but they're often not applied.

MJ: Exactly. For example, currently in Haiti there's a debate over amending the Constitution. Why on earth are we discussing amending a constitution that is not even being applied ? Let's apply it first to find out if amendments are required. There's also another problem: justice exists only for people who can afford it. The great majority of human rights victims are poor but they can't afford a lawyer. We're talking about 32 coup d'États in our history which have involved massive human rights violations. If you go into a Haitian jail today, you will see that everyone is poor. It's people who stole a banana or committed some other crime, and they'll spend their whole life in jail. For the middle class and the rich, it's a different story : they have access to lawyers and things work out for them.

And in Haiti there is no real legal aid. Because of the poverty in Haiti, we have few lawyers. Few people have the opportunity to complete their studies. The Bureau des avocats internationaux is the only group in Haiti working in a formal way on human rights cases.

DE: In a country of 8 million people where tens of thousands of murders and rapes have been committed in the last several years ?

MJ: There is no other group. There is no one else here working for the poor of Cité Soleil, Raboteau or elsewhere. This is why we have such a problem with impunity in Haiti.

DE: Can you put this problem of the non-application of law into a historical perspective for us ?

MJ: Foreigners have always come to Haiti as saviors ; even Christopher Columbus tried to convert everyone to Christianity. Once here, foreign powers establish local allies, then begin changing and manipulating the legal system to suit their needs. To oppress the population, methods are put in place so the law doesn't have to be respected. Look at the last coup d'État : the first thing Latortue did was undermine the tribunals and put pressure on the judicial system. Father Jean-Juste was arrested in October 2004. He was arrested for murder. There was no police report. No one knew the name of the person he supposedly killed. There was nothing ! The case came before the judge and he courageously freed Father Jean-Juste one month later. Subsequently, the Justice Minister, Bernard Gousse, ordered that this judge's cases be given to other people. In Haiti, we have judges with expensive cars and fancy jeeps, but there are others with nothing because they refuse to sell out.

DE: It sounds like the era of Louis XIV in France where all that was required was for the King to issue a "lettre de cachet" announcing you were arrested and that was it.

MJ: During the coup, people were arrested like this all the time — without warrants or with illegal or expired warrants. Yvon Neptune, the Prime Minister, was arrrested without a warrant. It's awful ! Moreover, the justice system was used to legitimate these illegal procedures. All these people — Father Jean-Juste, Bob Molière, Jean-Marie Samedi — were run through the Prosecutor's Office. In Haiti though, the Prosecutor's Office is simply a rubber-stamping stopover on the way to prison. In the case of Father Jean-Juste, I got a call saying he was before the Prosecutor in Pétionville. I live nearby, but by the time I got there, he was already in prison.

That's the situation we're up against. The laws exist, but the justice system is completely muzzled. Judges who disobey the government are fired whereas the government — the executive branch — is supposed to ensure the correct application of the law ! Don't forget that in December 2005, the interim President, Alexandre Boniface, dismissed five Supreme Court justices. This is completely illegal! Then they were replaced without following constitutional procedures. New judges were simply appointed and the current government has done nothing to change the situation.

DE: All these people are still in place ?

MJ: Yes. The Latortue regime fired over 300 judges and police chiefs. The first thing Latortue did was get rid of people who supported or who were appointed by Aristide. A lot of pressure was put on others. Since I worked on cases for Lavalas supporters, I was called the " rat's lawyer [the " chimères' lawyer ]. They couldn't fire me or erase my knowledge, so they used psychological pressure.

DE: During the time of Aristide, did judges obtain their positions legally ?

MJ: Yes and no. The constitution was only being partially applied. There is a constitutional procedure for the nomination of judges requiring the consent of assemblies in different departments throughout the country. This wasn't being respected. The Minister of justice was making recommendations and Aristide was granting commissions to judges. This is not a secure way of putting judges in place. I criticized it myself. I told Aristide to find a better way. If the President has the power to put judges in place, these judges will do his bidding in order to protect their positions. This is not healthy for a democracy. We must respect the constitution : the population must participate in the nomination of judges. I support the election of judges.

DE: And with the Latortue regime, these questionable practices worsened.

MJ: The Latortue regime turned the world upside down. Justice and the rule of law were thrown out the window. It was a dictatorship. And don't forget: the 'civil society' groups and the upper classes were constantly demanding 'justice' during Aristide's term, calling him a predator, accusing him of all sorts of human rights violations. Then they got into power and they carried out the most unimaginable acts! The coup d'État created a huge mess and now we have to work twice as hard to make up for lost time. The problem of the non-application of law is still with us. Presently, there are no trials. Over 1,000 people have been arrested in recent months, but the justice system is incapable of carrying out a trial. All sorts of cases are pending.

DE: When a country goes through 32 coup d'États in 200 years, does a tradition of non-respect for law develop among those that are supposed to apply the law.

MJ: Definitely. People in power are lax in their application of the law. Few people in government respect the judiciary. They look down on it. The judicial branch of government is used to launch political careers and legitimate power. They know the system is weak, that if they commit a crime they can avoid prosecution. And in the end, it's the population that suffers.

The poor majority of Haiti see things very differently than the elites. Take the 2004 coup d'État as an example. The people were demanding that Aristide's mandate and the constitution be respected. The upper classes were demanding Aristide's departure. That's the problem. The illiterate population of Haiti — the 'rabble' — were calling for law and democracy whereas the others were calling for anarchy!

People in power have traditionally had little respect for justice in Haiti. Even today the executive is calling for changes to the Constitution while the population is demanding that they simply apply the existing Constitution ! If you read the Haitian Constitution, you will see it is very progressive and socialist. It takes into consideration all major UN and OAS human rights treaties and conventions. But what do we have now ? We have a battle over the 48 hour rule. This is the rule by which anyone arrested must be charged or appear before a judge within 48 hours to establish probable cause. It doesn't take a genius to understand why this is a good rule! Why on earth would it even be debated ? Only dictatorships would consider not respecting such a rule ! Those in power right now are upset that this regulation is in the constitution. They want to change the constitution so they can find a way to keep their political enemies in prison.

DE: Let's talk about a legal problem very important to Haiti : the violation of human rights law, the kinds of crimes that take the justice system beyond common criminal law.

MJ: This is a very troubling issue for Haitians. Take MINUSTAH for example. I don't even know where to begin ! I have in my hands the text of the agreement signed in April 2004 between MINUSTAH and the Government of Haiti. It gives complete immunity to MINUSTAH. I'm currently working on the case of July 2005 massacre in Cité Soleil. MINUSTAH still hasn't looked into the case. Not only that, but neither the victims nor BAI can file a case against MINUSTAH because they're immune.

DE: So what do you do ?

MJ: That's the problem. MINUSTAH cannot be legally brought before the Haitian courts. So what are we supposed to do ? What procedure do we use ? I've prepared the July 2005 cases but nothing has been done because MINUSTAH can't be judge and accused at the same time. WIth these immunity agreements, MINUSTAH is playing both roles: judge and accused.

DE: It sounds very confusing. Even you, perhaps the most articulate person in Haiti on this matter, you're having difficulty knowing what to do.

MJ: Exactly. Take the example of Jimmy Charles, arrested without a warrant by Brazilian UN troops, turned over to the police, only to end up riddled with bulletholes. What happened next ? MINUSTAH did the inquiry. This is why the inquiries are tainted. It's as though the Haitian State no longer existed. The authority of MINUSTAH, Canada, France and the US has created a situation where the State has lost all of its authority.

In other human rights cases, it's also difficult because the justice system is unaffordable for the poor of Haiti. If you're rich or important and your rights aren't respected, there is justice. Conversely, if you're powerful and you abuse human rights , you can find ways to avoid the consequences of your actions. But in the Bureau des avocats internationaux, we're calling people to account. We're busy and we have many victims who pay us nothing, but we're moving ahead. We are going to call Gérard Latortue to account, as well as the CSPN (The Higher Council of the National Police) and the Police itself.

DE: Are the recent prosecutions of Toto Constant and Carl Dorelien important for your work?

MJ: Very important. Moreover, in the past people were terrified of speaking out. That fear is disappearing. People here are demanding that dictators, human rights abuses, killers and rapists be called to account. We must do it. Just watch. I guarantee it: Gérard Latortue and his henchmen will face justice for what they did while in power. We are preparing all the cases.

DE: Your strategy is to push the system.

MJ: Exactly. And we've got to pressure the Government of Haiti as well. For example, according to the top UN representative in Haiti and head of MINUSTAH, Edmond Mulet, MINUSTAH had Préval's blessing when it carried out the December 22nd massacre. That being the case, we are preparing a case against the Government of Haiti. Even if the State didn't give the order, they have done nothing to correct the situation or to investigate these crimes. The potential presence of criminals in a neighborhood does not give MINUSTAH a green light to open fire on civilians! The Government will be pursued for crimes against humanity if indeed they gave the order.

DE: What about the scale and nature of the crimes of the coup period? You have crimes committed by foreign governments, foreign troops and local actors on a scale difficult for any legal system to deal with. How do you proceed?

MJ: We're looking at strategies used after the tragedies of Rwanda, Yougoslavia and elsewhere. This is why we're building every case now. We're going to make noise, solicit the consience of the international community. We'll set up tribunals to judge the perpetrators of the crimes of the coup of 2004. It's a huge undertaking. We have many powerful enemies such as the Canadian, French and American Governments who don't want their citizens or their ministers and officials condemned. But we're counting on our friends.

DE: What cases are you are working on presently?

MJ: We're working with political prisoners right now. We're at the appeal stage with René Civil, Amanus Mayette and Father Gérard Jean-Juste. With many others, we've just opened the cases. We're petitioning the Inter-American Commission on Human Rights and the OAS in the case of former Prime Minister Yvon Neptune. We're also following the murder cases of activist Jimmy Charles and journalist Abdias Jean, both killed by the Latortue regime.

DE: So your work now is heavily concentrated on the consequences of February 29th, 2004.

MJ: Absolutely. The coup brought with it huge numbers of murders and rapes. If The Lancet cited 8,000 murders in Port-au-Prince between 2004 and 2006, we have to double this number to reflect what happened throughout the country. Rape itself was used as a political weapon. When husbands are displaced or in hiding, women are vulnerable. Aside from raping women, the henchmen ordered children to have sex with their mothers or sisters. These were serious crimes.

Then there's the political prisoners. We've worked for over 200 already who've been locked up for their political affiliation, for refusing to accept the coup d'État and for demanding a return to democracy. There's also the case of La Scierie. The Canadian Government funded the NCHR — now the RNDDH — to prepare the cases of La Scierie, a case which led to the imprisonment of Prime Minister Yvon Neptune, Minister Privert and deputy Amanus Mayette. Mr. Mayette has been jailed for three years without charge!

DE: They're still paying the price for this fabrication.

MJ: To this day. It is incredible that so-called democratic and civilized countries like Canada, France and the US would participate in the disinformation campaign that led to the kidnapping of Aristide.

DE: Countries which subsequently said nothing during two years of massive crimes. Before the coup, Aristide is called a dictator. Then a real dictator is installed, his people kill and rape thousands, and no one says anything.

MJ: And the hypocrisy! For example, Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs, Peter MacKay, criticized Haiti for the imprisonment of Yvon Neptune after Latortue left power, but said absolutely nothing before, not even during Neptune's near-fatal hunger strike. It's pure hypocrisy! I don't understand how a globalized world can function with such hypocrites in power. These crimes would never be tolerated in Canada, France or the US, so why are these governments allowed to commit them in Haiti? They continue their dirty work in Haiti today by saying nothing about political prisoners or the summary killings in Cité Soleil by the UN forces (MINUSTAH).

DE: I've been to Cité Soleil four times in the last few weeks during which time MINUSTAH has arrested 70 people, calling them "criminals" and "gang members." We talked to people who said their neighbors and family members were being arbitrarily arrested, that they were never involvement in crime at all. I haven't found any journalists asking MINUSTAH officials about the nature of these mass arrests.

MJ: The media says nothing. They're giving MINUSTAH the freedom they need to arrest arbitrarily without warrants, to kill and rape, to do what they want. Take the case of Jimmy Charles, who was arrested by MINUSTAH and later riddled with bullets. We found him like that at the General Hospital. This has been happening since Aristide was kidnapped. In Cité Soleil today, MINUSTAH is violating human rights. They're killng people. They decide who lives and dies. The government, the media and even the International Community act as if this is normal, as if these people should be punished. Take for example the case of the massacre of December 22, 2006 carried out by MINUSTAH.

DE: You're working on this case right now?

MJ: Yes. I have 22 death certificates in my possession. It's a complicated case because the Latortue Government signed immunity agreements with the UN. I thought Préval would change the situation, but he hasn't. The question is this: with such a free hand given to MINUSTAH, what role does the State play after a massacre like this? We've got people with bulletholes all over their bodies but no journalists going down to find out how it happened.

DE: But we'll see this type of coverage on a website like HaitiAction.net.

MJ: Yes, and sites like IJDH, thanks to people like Wadner Pierre, Lovinsky Pierre Antoine, Kevin Pina and others. But that's it. Even human rights organizations aren't interested.

DE: I try to imagine a crime like this in Canada. It would be on the front pages for weeks.

MJ: Absolutely. We've got unarmed innocent people, young children, being shot to death.

DE: It seems as though the only reason given for these massive assaults on unarmed people is that "criminals" or "bandits" " or "gang members" are present in the community.

MJ: Since the coup d'État, these terms are used as if they represented specific crimes. They are used to justify killing. Even if there are slight differences between Haitian law and Canadian or American law, our legal systems share all the same principles. You're innocent until proven guilty. If a verdict hasn't been declared, you cannot be treated like a criminal. Criminals must be arrested, judged and sentenced. Since the kidnapping of Aristide, the process of legal accusation has been reduced to name calling: the word "chimère" is used like a death sentence. This is how all the political prisoners, members of Lavalas, were rounded up during the coup. Their names were announced on the radio! If your name was on the radio, you had to hide right away. This is no way to carry out an arrest warrant ! If a judge issues a warrant, it must be kept secret, not announced on the radio ! This is how Prime Minister Neptune was arrested. In his case, he knew he had done nothing wrong. He called the Police Chief and said, "If you have a warrant, here I am." It was the same for Amanus Mayette.

Today the situation has changed. Now they're looking for 'bandits', the pretext used for the December 22nd massacre, and everyone is looking the other way. It's as though the US and Canadian Embassies no longer existed, as though the International Community was no longer in Haiti. When Aristide was in power, these groups did nothing but condemn human rights violations. Now, one would think these violations had ceased. And what about inquiries ? The question of excessive force is not even raised concerning MINUSTAH.

DE: The problem is also that people outside of Haiti trying to understand these matters are at the mercy of the mainstream media who are scooping up MINUSTAH's press releases and the UN News Service articles.

MJ: I was recently in Miami and I read the smear campaign against Amaral. These propaganda campaigns are directed against Haiti in general. When they show MINUSTAH giving food to people in Cité Soleil — just as Brazilian troops did in their own country — it is done to hide the fact that they're killing people, to hide the reality of the military occupation.

DE: We've seen it recently in Cité Soleil. They carry out mass arrests for days, then come in with water bottles, doctors and dentists.

MJ: And journalists and photographers. This is a conspiracy. It's not a new conspiracy. It goes back to 1804, the year of our independence. No one wanted Haiti to give a lesson to the world. Bush talks about freedom and liberty, but Haiti is the mother of liberty. We even helped Miranda and Bolivar achieve independence for Venezuela. The conspiracy includes the way Haiti is presented to the world : images of misery only, never images from Pétionville where people are better off. This tells the world that Haiti should be placed in quarantine. This conspiracy continues today with the consent of the Haitian Government who are for the most part brokers for foreign governments.

DE: There are many activists and supporters in the US and Canada who want to see an end to this conspiracy. Do you have any specific messages for them?

MJ: I have been able to advance in my work thanks to these people, people like you who come here looking to gather and spread good information. Ours is a battle of information. The entire kidnapping of Aristide was pulled off because of a battle of information. Progressives and activists must keep their eyes wide open. Our enemies are still there. There is an enormous amount of lying and propaganda. Foreigners have to read our media very scrupulously because the society is very polarized. The perspective of the poor majority is absent from the media. Even here in Haiti, I know people who consider themselves democrats, socialists, progressives, and they were completely duped by the media. They bought the lie about Aristide. Independent media is very important. It was crucial in helping us tell the world the truth about Haiti. It allowed American and Canadian activists to pressure their governments so that the situation could improve.

It is crucial to sensitize your populations to the real situation in Haiti. My colleague Brian Concannon moved back to the US after the 2004 coup d'État. After 9 years in Haiti, he realized that crucial work had to be done in the US, telling people the incredible damage the coup d'État did to our young democracy. I encourage people to come to Haiti. Even a few weeks can affect people strongly. I always make myself available for people. I put them in contact with progressive individuals and organizations. I've met many progressive people at the World Social Forum in Brazil and Venezuela, people who openly criticize their own governments, people like Anthony Fenton and Yves Engler in your country, Canada.

The struggle for democracy isn't over at all. People voted for Préval in 2006 but he is more interested in talking with imperialist powers than fixing internal problems. We still have hundreds of political prisoners. Very little real change has occurred since Latortue left power. Haiti wants to participate in a globalized world, but not with the hypocrites who have been undermining our democracy. We are looking for people to help us construct democracy and the rule of law, not the contrary.

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Post by Michel Nau » Tue May 01, 2007 2:19 pm

Serge ekri: [quote]Youn nan chèf gang yo fèk arete fè gwo deklarasyon lòt jou lè li di li te kon resevwa $5000 pa semen nan men gwo endistriyèl, san li pa site non. Anne Marie Issa ki te nan chanm Komès, di ke se poutèt sa li te bay demisyon li. Sa sa vle di? Eske gouvènman pwal fè ankèt? Eske chèf gang sa pwal koumanse vide enfòmasyon atè? Men ki kote pou nou gade pou wè si gen de pwa de mezi. Mwen ta swete gen bon jan ankèt ki fèt sou deckarasyon sa yo epi pou la jistis koumanse al dèyè kèk moun nan sektè ki toujou ap chache mete tout bagay sou do ti piti yo, sa ki pa gen kòb yo, ki pa gen mwayen, jan Mario Joseph di. Mwen pwal poste yon bon rale Mario Joseph te fè nan Haiti Action. Li ta bon pou li li, sa ta kapab ba w yon lòt pèspektiv bagay yo.[/quote] Serge w konnin ke nan tout peyi ki gen dezod a dwat e a goch, komesan biznisman toujou bay gangs malfete lajan pou proteje biznis yo.

Chiquita Banana admits paying colombian terror group over $1 million to protect banana farms, http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070314/terroris ... .html?.v=5

Nan ka biznisman ayisyen yo zak sa te yon “ a business decision, they made the payments in exchange for protection.” menm jan ak tout lot biznis. Min malerezman, zafe proteksyon sa vinn chanje e pran yon aspe politik grav pou peyi a.
Mr. Joseph said: [quote]MINUSTAH had Préval's blessing when it carried out the December 22nd massacre. That being the case, we are preparing a case against the Government of Haiti. [/quote]
Fok mesye Joseph al jete yon kou dey sou kontra MINITAH. Tout moun kap sou, min se pa tout moun ki kap genyen. Ti presyon sa yo pap pase.
Mr. Joseph said: [quote]Even if the State didn't give the order, they have done nothing to correct the situation or to investigate these crimes. The Government will be pursued for crimes against humanity if indeed they gave the order.[/quote] Pa ki trou ke li pral pase pou genyen ka sa. MINUSTAH se yon fos internasyonal ke li yeki donk li pral frape konn li avek le mond antye?
Mr. Joseph said: [quote]I thought Préval would change the situation, but he hasn't. : Yes, and sites like IJDH, thanks to people like Wadner Pierre, Lovinsky Pierre Antoine, Kevin Pina and others. But that's it. Even human rights organizations aren't interested. [/quote]
Nan bon kreyol si mwen kapab traduy sa mesye a di a:" Preval pa interese nan le pase, ni nan prizonye politik. Se de lavan ke Govenman li a ap panse. Tout lot ti aktivis yo ap pale fo mete la, menm oganizasyon dwa imin yo pa pete klorat bayo santi.

Pep la te vote pou Preval an 2006!! Now is payback time!!
But to whom? Lavalas pa reprezante pep la.

Lavalas te konprand ke yo tap genyen tout jan le yo tap jwe eleksyon an sou 2 echikye politik, yon avek Bazin kom reprezantan, e sou lot echikye a Preval ki te paret aevk ESPWA. Yo te konprand ke yo pi met dam pase peson.
Malin malin edemi.

Presyon ke Met Mario Joseph/Lavalas ap vinn fe sou govenman Preval/Alexis a pap pase konsa. Ekip Kaplim, Benoit, Gilles e lot pati politik yo te jwen lajan nan min Aristide pou domaj ke chimere yo te fe ravaj nan propriete yo. paske mesye sa yo te gen apuy anpil organizasyon dwa imin.

Preval/Alexis di ke yo pa genyen prizonye politik nan prizon, ou di mwens, si genyen, se pa yo ki mete yo la.

Pa ki trou ke Joseph pral pase la pou jwen yon konpromi politik ou byen reparasyon monete pou prisonye politik yo?

An nou gade pou nou we.


Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:39 am

Post by Serge » Wed May 02, 2007 11:33 pm


Lè mwen te envite w al li rale sa, mwen tap swete apre sa, ou ta kapab gen yon lòt pèspektiv sitiyasyon an, men genlè se reve mwen tap reve. Pase ou fè yon bon jan analiz rale sa, ou pito rete nan koze tripotay, ap fè yon pakèt espkilasyon ki pa gen oken sans. Diskite avèk ou, se lave men siye atè. Alatraka!.

Antouka, se desizyon pa w, se tout dwa w. Foure tèt ou nan tè ankou otrich pou refize wè verite a...


Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Post by Michel Nau » Thu May 03, 2007 7:59 am

Serge di mwen: [quote]Lè mwen te envite w al li rale sa, mwen tap swete apre sa, ou ta kapab gen yon lòt pèspektiv sityasyon an, men gen lè se reve mwen tap reve. [/quote] Serge mwen li e reli rale Mario Joseph bay Haiti Information Project la, mwen li e reli « entre les lines” Mwen pa kestyone konpetans misye, ni devosyon li pou Human right an Haiti. Mwen kestyone raport e relasyon misye genyen avek organization Lavalas la.
Sa kap anpeche misye fe yon bon travay.
Bias and impartiality kap entre nan jwet la tou.
Se sa selman ke mwen kap di sou travay ke misye ap fe a sou non dwa zimin.

Melanje zafe politik avek zafe judisye kap kreye anpil problem pou yon govenman ki eli demokratikman.
Moun komanse deja ap pliyen de konfisyon ki genyen ant prizonye politik e prizonye « de droit commun » Min sa Radio Metropole rapote.
http://www.metropolehaiti.com/metropole ... e_fr.phtml

Si yo arête moun sa yo pou konviksyon politik li, govenman Preval la fet pou interveni paske sa pafet pou egziste nan yon peyi kap fonksyone nan yon sistem demokratik.

Si yo arête moun sa yo kom kriminel “droit commun” fok yo jije yo e bay yo penn ke yo merite.
Lavalasien ke yo arete pou konviksyon politik yo, tout moun konmin yo.
Yo pa anpil. W kap konte yo sou 10 dwet w.
Lavalasien ke yo arete pou zak kriminel yo e ki vle fe moun kwe ke se pou rezon politik ke yo nan prizon, moun konin yo tou.

Kestyon pou w Serge e lot kamarad yo.
Zafe politik la, e judicye a ki kote ke yo kómanse ki kote ke yo fimi???
Si yon moun politisyen e kriminel an menm tan.
Ki jijman ki pou fet avan?
Lage li etan ke politisyen e answit arete li e jije li pou zak kriminel li ?
Eske li se yon kriminel ki vin tounin yon politisyen ;
Ou byen yon politisyen ki komet zak kriminel pou pati politik li ???

Sak pran nesans avan sou la tê beni , poul la ou byen zê a ???

Si Preval/Alexis bay legin sou presyon mesye sa yo, e fe konbinezon pou lage mesye sa yo san ke yo pa pase nan tribinal, sa kap gen yon konsekans grave pou peyi d'Ayiti ki deja sosyalman e ekonomikman polarize deja.

Ba nou yon ti limye sou zafe sa yo.


Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:39 am

Post by Serge » Thu May 03, 2007 10:23 pm


Jan ou kon fè deja sou fowòm sa, se yon bagay ki tèlman fasil pou wou pou defòme baz koze, pou chache yon twou pou sove ep pou fè kont devire w pou pa vreman pale sou kesyon kle yo nan yon diskisyon. Mwen pap fè sa pou wou, paske jan mwen te di w, se lave men siye atè.

Wap "kestyone raport e relasyon (sic) misye genyen avek organization (sic) Lavalas la". Mwen ta renmen konen sa w vle di lè ou ekri sa. Sa se yon akizasyon klasik eleman anti-lajistis yo toujou bay lè yon bezwen kraze yon moun. Pè Jean-Juste vin nan lantèman yon joumalis. Laklas gen tan akize di se li ki touye jounalis la san prèv san anyen. E ki pi rèd, lapolis kouri arete misye. Sansinay fèt Nan Lascierie. Premye Minis, nan pye travay li, al wè sa ki pase. Epi yo akize li se li ki bay lòd tiye moun, san prèv, san anyen elatrye. Si li te chita nan biwo li li pa fè anyen, li pa di anyen, ou deja tande sa ki tap di: ki mele Premye Minis la si moun mouri, se pa sa ki enterese li.

Me. Mario Joseph ap defan dwa moun sou plan legal sèlman. Menm sa ki pa vle wè li pa janm kabap atake li tèlman li fè travay li byen. Pasyon misye, jan entèvyou a montre, se goumen pou defan dwa moun. Ki kote ou ye oumenm?

[quote]Mwen kestyone raport e relasyon (sic) misye genyen avek organization (sic) Lavalas la". [/quote]

Kididonk, si map kontinye fouye pi fon nan sa w di a, wap denigre tout valè travay Mario Joseph ap fè depi konbyen lane nan peyi a, ou mete dout sou motivasyon misye. Sa ou pa kon anyen sou misye, ou pa menm di li se yon Lavalasyen non, ou di li gen "raport e relasyon (sic) " ak "organization Lavalas". Li preske malonèt ke ou ka rive di yon bagay konsa lè ou pa gen oken enfòmasyon ki pèmèt ou menm sijere sa. Men ou tèlman nan lojik pou chache diskredite misye, ou blije pran pant sa, san ke ou pa reyalize ke sa w wap di a, ak tout zak Mario Joseph fè, pa kadre ditou ditou. Se pa defan map defan misye non, men mwen vle montre kouman ou "de mauvaise foi".

Ou mande mwen yon kesyon :

[quote]Zafe politik la, e judicye a ki kote ke yo kómanse ki kote ke yo fimi??? [/quote]

Pèmèt mwen di w ke kesyon sa pa fè oken sans, paske ou byen kon repons la. Men pou pa di map chache fè kout volan tankou w, map ba w yon ti repons tou kout.

"zafè politik " ak zafè "jidisyè" (pa judicye), se se bagay wap jwen nan tout peyi. Kote wap viv la, ou wè sa toulejou. Ki kote youn koumanse e ki kote lòt la fini? Kesyon sa pa gen oken valè. Se pa la pwoblèm lan ye. Kesyon an se: ki lwa ki genyen pou reglemante tout zak kit se yon zak politik, kit se yon zak jidisyè? Eske lalwa bay dwa fè tèl ou tèl bagay? Kisa Konstitisyon an di? Eske tout moun trete menm jan?

Lè Lalwa gen pou fè travay li, li pa gade si moun ki komèt yon zak se yon politisyen li ye ou pa. Si se yon palmantè ki komèt yon move zak, gen lwa ki di kouman pou la jistis jere ka sa. Si se yon politisyen ki komèt yon move zak, Lajistis pa fèt pou gen yon tretman diferan. Nan kontèks sa, Lwa Ayiti yo sou papye, se sa nèt. Men nan pratik la, se lòt koze.

Michel, piga vin fè moun konpran gen yon divizyon ant yon politisyen ak yon moun ki fè move zak, komsi tou de se pa moun yo ye. Sa mwen ta swete ou konpran, pwoblèm lan, se eske sistèm jidisyè a kapab fonksyone pou mete yon moun anba kòd lè li fè krim, ki mele kote li soti a. Men gwo diferans ki genyen pa egzanp ant yon peyi tankou Ayiti ak Etazini. Nan peyi Dayiti, sistèm jidisyè a pa mache komsadwa: ti piti a pran kont kalòt li, li pa gen kote poul ale poul jwen sipò legal. Gwo tèt bay kont kalòt li, lè yo lonje dwèt sou li, li bay kòb, li achte jij, moun pè manyen li epi lajistis la paralize. Se la yon nèg tankou Mario Joseph (epi kèk bon lòt avoka, se pa li menm sèlman), gen tout itilite li. Etazini, nèg fè menm zak yo, men, menm si yo pa kenbe tout, yon lè konsa, yo mete grapen sou yo. Ekzanp: Libby, Marta Stewart, Depite Randal Cunningham elatrye. Nou gen plizyè gwotèt nan peyi Dayiti ki jis koulye a ap voltije nan lè san pèson pa fè yo anyen: Chamblain, Guy Philippe, Poitevien, Lucas elatrye.

Mwen sèten se pa repons sa ou tap tan, oubyen ou te ka panse mwen tap fè tankou w: iyore ksyon an. Non, monchè. Gen yon mo angle pou sa wap eseye fè a: Disingenuous".

Jan mwen di w deja, vokabilè voye monte a, li lè pou voye li jete, yon jan pou nou kapab gen bon jan diskisyon sou fowòm lan.


Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Post by Michel Nau » Mon May 07, 2007 11:51 am

Serge, mwen dako avek w ke met Mario Joseph ap fe yo gwo travay sou zafe dwa imin e kondisyon prizonye politik nan peyi d'Ayiti.
Fok mwen di w tou ke jistis nan peyi d'Ayiti se yon banket a 3 pye.
A 3 legged stool. Polis, Tribinal, Prizon.

Si yonn nan pye banket sa pa kodyom, govenman pap kap byen shita pou fe travay li.
Le la Polis mete la pat sou yon kriminel, prochin etap la se voye'l devan Tribinal.
Min, malerezman, yo oblije voye'l direkteman nan prizon san pase pa dezyem etap la, paske tribinal yo ki pou rand vedik yo a savwa si moun nan koupab ou pa, pa fonksyone nomalman.

a) Viktim yo pe paret tet yo ou byen yo pa gen avoka ki gen kouraj pou defand yo.
b) Temwen yo pe kou sourit pou yo pa viktim tou.
c) Jij ap disparet e machin ap frape yo.

La Polis temet anfom kou bass, Prizon yo te met modernize, avek pisinn, A/C e shaje ak plas pou tout moun jwen.
Min gwo problem nan se minnin gwo zotobre sa yo devan tribinal.

Si Jij ap mouri e automóvil ap frape yo, si temwen ap disparet, si evidans ap disparet.
System jidisye pap kap fonksyone, paske tribinal ki se twaziem pye jistis la pokodyom.
Se akoz de febless (the weakness link) e twou sa yo ki genyen nan triloji sa polis/tribinal/prison ki fe ke met Mario Joseph ap genyen tout ka sa yo pa teknikalite.

Fok govenman Preval/Alexis sa fe yon efo pou ranfose system tribinal a pou moun sa jwen jistis kelkeswa apatenans politik li ou beyn krimm ke li fe.

Soti anba min la Polis e fe vol direk nan prison san pase devan tribunal la pa fe sans, e w e met Joseph e tout lot kamarad sou forum nan kom sa tre byen.


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