2008 the Year of Engagement

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Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:29 pm

Post by Leoneljb » Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:43 pm

Beautiful Words, but not quite possible yet.
Haiti has a problem of infrastrusture. Infrastructure would help us to build and MAINTAIN whatever we've constructed.
How do we keep up with waste management of the Rest Areas suggested? who will be in charge of such services? Where is the Money?
It is not possible without a reliable govt. Frankly, with regard to Haiti, I don't know if the chicken came first or the Egg???
The govt, the People or something else! Bagay yo pa fasil menm non...

Dr Roger Malebranche

Haitians living outside of Haiti

Post by Dr Roger Malebranche » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:43 pm

As a born and forever Haitian I should know. Haitian love BIG words and they have adopted the term DIASPORA with a flourish. Little do many of them know that the word derives from the word DISPERSION and was at first associated with our Jewish brothers who " shalt be dispersed in all kingdoms of the earth ". And this is my beef with the Haitian political system. Jews were dispersed by force, just like many of us were, but the doors of Israel are always open for them. Some of their greatest generals and politicians were born abroad but their rights as Jews were never challenged. Jews from all over the world have contributed in any way they could... money, brain, art, lives etc... to the survival and welfare of Israel.

What's wrong with the Haitian political system ? They want our money but they don't want us. I don't have the right to even ask how that money is spent. I did not want to stay in the USA. I had to. I did not plan to take the American citizenship, I had to. Some members of my family were killed for no reasons and I felt that going back would have been a fatal mistake. Are our brothers inside the country going to make us responsible for things we did not have any control on ? What's wrong with dual citizenship for the likes of us "dispersed" who want it and pride themselves as being called Haitians ?

I know, I know... tell the guys in power that granting dual citizenship to the Haitian "diaspora " who applies for it would be a source of extra income. I would be happy to contribute to their favorite charity.


Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:39 am

Post by Serge » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:59 pm

[quote]What's wrong with dual citizenship for the likes of us "dispersed" who want it and pride themselves as being called Haitians [/quote]

In my opinion, I do not think that the way you present the issue of dual citizenship is adequate. You seem to imply that the fact that one , or should I say, many Haitians had to become citizens of another country is wrong. I disagree. The main issue is how to modify the Constitution to accept dual citizenship.

Like many things in Haiti, unfortunately, because of the lack of practice at working with method, because of an ignorance on the part of people in Haiti about how to do things, because of petty squabbling, the issue of dual citizenship, just like many oher issues that need to be tackled to modernize and adapt the Constitution, become just petty discussions, because those whose duties are precisely to study them and to find solutions; they do not have the vision, the will nor the knowledge to tackle these problems.

For example, as I have said before, we Haitians like to think that we have to reinvent the wheel. Absolutely not. Countries like Brazil, France, Guyana, Israel and many more accept dual citizenship. So it would be a matter for our legisltors, our constitutional experts and the Executive Branch to sit down, examine the laws of those countries and adapt them to our context. What is wrong with that? The issue of dual citizenship includes many aspects that have to be carefully examined; among them:

1) The tax issue: do these citizens pay taxes in two countries or only in one?
2) What about ownership of properties?
3) What kind of agreement between the country of naturalization and the country of birth have to be signed?
4) Do the children of these people automatically acquire dual nationality also?
5) What will be the legal status of those who commit a crime in either of the country? Which law will apply to them and how?

I am not an expert, and I am just raising some of these issues, but there are so many more to be dealt with in the whole process.

To conclude, Dr. Malebranche, there is nothing wrong with dual citizenship. What is wrong is when people, without thinking, scream that the Constitution has to be amended, without regard for process, moving at 100 miles an hour. As far as I am concerned, this is a formula for disaster which will do more harm than good. This has to be done with method and discipline.


Dr Roger Malebranche

Post by Dr Roger Malebranche » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:12 pm

Hi Serge :
We should have this exchange of ideas under a coconut tree in Port Salut, drinking clairin with assorossi and eating jonjoles. That would be the life.
I don't have anything but respect for Haitians who decide to adopt another nationality in order to reach a bright future. I commend them.
I know Canadians, Italians, Germans, Dominicans etc... who have become American citizens and delight in that station. The fact that they feel that way is wonderful. I was not including ALL Haitians in my position. Not at all. Only ME. I am 75 years old and I want to be buried in Haiti as a Haitian in the familial "caveau". But even so I would not ask our "overworked" politicians to rush at 100 miles an hour ( it would be more like 1 mile an hour ) to do the right thing about dual citizenship.
Dual citizenship is not for everyone and I know many Haitians who are quite happy to call themselves Americans. I tried but it did not work for me and I am asking our government to correct a wrong that was done to many of us years ago when Haitians were leaving the country in droves to escape the Duvalier's dictatorship.
The tax issue should not be a problem. Taxpayers would pay taxes where they made the money. Correct me if I am wrong.
Ownership of properties should not be hard. Many foreigners own some of the best land in Haiti, either under fictitious names or through arrangements with other parties.
Japanese, Chinese, Haitian nationals etc... own properties in the USA and that does not seem to cause a problem with the American government nor the American public.
It should be possible for the different countries to put heads together and reach a solution. Canada and Israel are 2 which have solved the issue. Please let me know if there are more.
When I was in Medical school I had friends born in the USA from Haitian parents. I believe they were allowed to choose one or the other nationality when they reached a certain age. I think 21. If Haiti and the USA did reach a satisfactory deal, those Haitiano- American children would not have to go through that painful choice.
As for crimes, in the case of someone with dual citizenship he or she would be punished according to the laws of the country where the crime was commited.
I am not an expert either Serge and I am sorry to speak from my heart instead of from my brain. But Haiti is too small and too poor to keep its brightest and most successful children at arm's length, and this is what is happening now. We have been divided into INSIDERS and DIASPORA. I did not choose to be diaspora and I am just fighting to regain my BIRTHRIGHT.
Of course I am intelligent enough to realize there are issues to be resolved, but the dual citizenship hot potato has been relegated to the back burner again and again. You are a young guy . For me the days are flying fast.
I want something done NOW. Of course if at all possible.
Do you know of anyone who could accelerate the process ?
Yours in love for Haiti.

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