I'm just amazed!

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Post by admin » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:48 am

[quote]Because we are dealing in the first place with people who are not Haitians and who do not give a damn about Haiti!

Brandt, Madsen, Mevs, Vob, Moscoso, Cianciulli, Marzouka, Tippenhauer, Bennett, etc…. Look at their last names! Take a f.. look! [/quote]
Marcien, this sounds jingoistic and xenophobic. Read every constitution of Haiti since Toussaint Louverture's 1801 Constitution. There is no mention of foreign-sounding last names. In fact, Toussaint and Antoine are French in origin. Does that exclude us from being Haitian? Of course, you could say that I am not Haitian, because I have renounced my Haitian citizenship and sworn allegiance to the flag of the United states of America. That I have done. And I am glad that my new country did not tell me that I could not become a U.S. citizen because I have a French (or Haitian) last name. I do consider myself an American citizen and I h
ave been voting in U.S. elections for the past twenty years (usually for losing causes).

I trust that you have never renounced your citizenship. That makes you a Haitian citizen and you are entitled to all the privileges that your citizenship confers upon you. You may not be entitled to run for President of Haiti, because there is a statute requiring five years of residency in Haiti prior to running. This is sort of arbitrary and there is a lot of arbitrariness in the 1987 Haitian Constitution. Much of it needs to be changed, by duly elected assemblies. As far as I am concerned, the 1987 Constitution, in its prescriptions for the government of Haiti, was aping too much after the constitutions of some parliamentary democracies in Europe. Nothing surprising in this, since France is the motherland for a lot of highfalutin Haitian intellectuals. The task of devising a true Haitian-centric constitution for the Haitian people still remains to be done.

It should include most of us in the Diaspora
.

However, I would agree with you that no American citizen should be President of Haiti. Unless Haiti becomes a state of the United States of America. Unless some day, the Constitution of Haiti would clearly spell out the constitutionality of such an arrangement. It has happened in Guyana, I think [or some other small country in that area, where an American lady became the head of state]. However, in Haiti, no dice... at this point. I fail to see how the CEP could establish such an anti-constitutional precedent by ratifying the candidacies of Mourra and Simeus. Since they are admittedly CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES, I don't see how they would presently have constitutional or even any reasonable extra-constitutional legitimity to become president of Haiti.

Maybe in the future. But such momentous change to Haitian Law should not come as the result of the Rape of Haiti by foreign occupiers on the year of the bicentennial of its independence. It cannot be done that way. The CEP cannot be
given absolute power to implement any and all changes. Certainly, the 1987 Constitution has been violated. But just because a woman has been raped does not mean that anyone else may come along and rape her again with impunity, on the basis of 'what the heck, she's already been raped'.

The Constitution of 1987 must be amended or seriously revised. But only a body of elected representatives should have the power to do that. This is why the coming elections are so important. This is why I disagree fundamentally with those who say that they should not take place. They may turn out to be a farce, but bring on the farce! We will do our best to expose it for what it is. But not having any elections, not having even the possibility of having any say in the future of Haiti, except perhaps through a bloody and devastating revolution, is not a position that I find defensible. If these elections will be selections U.S. style (as in 2000 Florida and 2004 Ohio), then we will simply have to deal with the
new selections rather than having to deal with the current set of selections for an indefinite future.

The Fanmi Lavalas Party does not appear to understand this point. Pèp Ayisyen an bouke dòmi deyò. Yo pa vle rete dòmi deyò pou tout tan. Ba yo direksyon, olye ou chita nan ret pale bèl franse ak bèl angle. Sispann voye mesaj kontradiktwa. Sispann chita sou dèyè ou. Whether it's Jean-Bertrand Aristide, Jonas Petit, Father Jean-Juste, Gilles, Hériveau, Feuillé, Voltaire, Préval, etc, that's not my primary concern (though the leadership of a political movement is certainly a concern to those who belong to it). I do not really give much thought to Fanmi Lavalas as a party. But I would very much hope that the Lavalas movement in Haiti does not get crushed beyond recognition, due to the lack of discernible leadership from anywhere within the movement. The Lavalas movement does not belong to anyone in particular. It belongs to the people of Haiti. The name itself is even immaterial to me. The o
nly thing that truly matters is that the Haitian people, including the impoverished 99% of them that live in precarious conditions in Haiti, must have a say in the direction of their government. That is to me, the only true reason for the independence of Haiti.

Because I consider myself a Haitian national, though no longer a Haitian citizen, I dedicate my emergies to help where I may and to the extent of my abilities. Every Haitian national, who loves his country, must do the same. I don't understand why anybody thinks that he must become President of Haiti in order to serve his country or his people. The presidency is more often than not the ultimate point of disservice to one's country, and this includes the United States of America, present occupancy included. Those who have the most should do the most, and in my view, this has absolutely nothing to do with being the President of Haiti at this time.

Let's change selections into elections, and exclusionary laws into laws that benefit
and protect ALL Haitians, regardless of social status.

But back to Brandt, Madsen, Mevs, Vob, Moscoso, Cianciulli, Marzouka, Tippenhauer, Bennett, etc…. Marcien, you say that they are not Haitian. Can you prove it? What constitutes a Haitian? Please let us not discriminate against people on the basis of their names or their families' foreign origins. Some of those guys are incompetent S.O.B.'s who have abused the privileges of Haitian citizenship. They should be dealt with accordingly. Those who have committed crimes against the nation should be sentenced to jail terms, commensurate with their crimes. However, I feel certain that many of them must be honest HAITIAN CITIZENS, according to the Constitution and laws of our country. We cannot deny them their citizenship, based on the trivial factor of their LAST NAMES. That is a simplistic and highly prejudicial way to approach the politics of our country. Certainly you are not alone in your position. I have heard those views expressed many ti
mes before. But they are wrong and have no constitutional precedent as a basis for exclusion.

It would help if we could have a measured discussion on who is (or can be) and who is not (and cannot be) A HAITIAN.

I hope that you can participate constructively in that very important discussion.

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Post by admin » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:02 pm

[quote]Please, do not go back to the same crap when you were a pro Lavalas supporter.[/quote]
Marcien [Gifrants] Toussaint, both my crap and your crap are available in the archives for anyone who's interested. So I will leave it at that.

Today, I stand by everything I ever said on this forum. And guess what? If it made me a pro Lavalas supporter yesterday, it stands to reason that I would be a pro Lavalas supporter today. The label bothers me none. What I am, I am.

Just worry about who you really are.

But indeed this is an interesting discussion. It will be even more so, if people could refrain from some uncontrollable urge to hurl insults at others and stick to the ideas!

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