Je suis le commencement et la fin

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Post by admin » Thu Oct 20, 2005 1:19 am

Bouli, èske "central command" lan, sètadi Vatikan dakò ak pawòl sa yo? Paske si pawòl sa yo soti sèlman nan bouch prela Legliz Angletè yo, mwen pa kwè yap gen plis efè pase sa.

Ou konnen byen ke nan Legliz Katolik, se evèk Vatikan an sèl ki otorite siprèm lan. Ki sa li di nan sa?

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Post by admin » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:04 am

Padel, JGPalmis te bay referans lan deja lò li te entwodui topik la sou fowòm lan, sa pa gen twò lontan. Map repete li l ankò:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 32,00.html

Epi gen anpil moun sou www.timesonline.co.uk ki te reyaji sou bagay sa. Reyaksyon yo trè enteresean e ou kab li yo nan:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 66,00.html

Men sa mwen twouve ki dwòl kan menm, sè ke mwen pa retwouve entèvansyon dirèk Vatikan nan koze sa. Legliz Katolik se yon enstitisyon ki toujou ensiste sou estrikti yerachik li. Daprè Wòm, se Pap la sèlman ki enfayib nan bagay lafwa. Evèk Angletè yo pa gen dwa fè konkirans ak Pap la sou bagay sa. Se sak fè lò "Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent" kòmanse atik la ak yon deklarasyon frakasan konsa:[quote]THE hierarchy of t
he Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true. [/quote] mwen twouve sa dwòl anpil li pa bay yon referans dirèk sou kokenchenn dokiman sa.

Mwen ta renmen wè dokiman sa ak de grenn je mwen, anvan mwen di plis.

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Post by admin » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:54 am

Quote

The hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.

End of Quote

Has anyone on the forum seen the referred document?

Mesye, mwen twouve nou pase a yon vitès siperyè san nou pa menm debreye klòtch la!

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:44 am

[quote]...Epi lè saa, kreyatè a <U>va deside</U> tout bon vre pou li "kreye" yo repons ki fè sans tout bon vre pou nou tout.[/quote]
Ah Jaf, m kenbe w..., nèg mele....:-)

Kouman w fè konnen kisa kreyatè a pral deside fè pou nou tout oubyen pa fè pou nou pyès? Eske se vle ou ta vle mete pawòl nan bouch li oubyen devine kisa k ap pase nan tèt li?

gelin

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Post by admin » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:57 am

Ki koze sa papa!

Alò, yo pa te ka mete dokiman sa sou entènèt la pou tout moun (ki gen aksè a entènèt) kapab wè li epi fè lakonesans mache? Pawòl Bondye a (se sa yo di) se senk kòb pa senk kòb pou yo vann li?

Mwen ta menm achte li pou fè lapati mache sou fowòm lan, men si se sou papye yo voye l ban mwen, kounyè a, mwen ta blije fè yon pakèt jefò pou m sa digitalize l ban nou?

Epi lò mwen ta fè sa, kounyè a yo va akize mwen dèske mwen jennen lavant entèpretasyon pa yo "pawòl Bondye a" ?

La Vérité a son prix, n'est-ce pas?

Si ou pa gen lajan, ou pa ladan l!

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:33 am

[quote]..."Epi, pètèt, lè saa, kreyatè a va deside tout bon vre pou li "kreye" yon repons ki fè sans tout bon vre pou nou tout".[/quote]
Ta ka gen 2 pwoblèm nan sa:

1 - si kreyatè a deside kreye yon repons pou nou tout, kijan n ap fè konnen l? En! Jaf, di m kijan nou ka rive jwenn repons kreyatè a si li ta deside fè sa pou nou.

2 - lòt pwoblèm ki ka genyen nan kesyon sa a, sè ke li difisil pou yon sèl repons ta fè sans pou nou tout. Ap toujou gen kèk byenneme ki pa dakò avè l, sitou si kreyatè ta fè "moun" patisipe nan demach li a. Moun toujou gen pwoblèm ak moun, e sa ka lakoz anpil twoublay nan kesyon an.

gelin

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:48 am

[quote]...Gelin ekri: "lòt pwoblèm ki ka genyen nan kesyon sa a, sè ke li difisil pou yon sèl repons ta fè sans pou nou tout".

A monchè Gélin, si Kreyatè a kapab mete tout linivè saa kanpe, kisa ki "difisil" laa?...[/quote]
Li pap difisil pou li, men li ka difisil pou moun lè youn ap eseye kominike sa yo konpran ak lòt moun. Toujou gen moun sou latè beni, men se pa janm menm moun yo (akoz de lanmò). Kijan yon jenerasyon pral fè kominike esperyans li ak kreyatè a bay yon lòt jenerasyon...? eske y ap kwè? Oubyen, si kreyatè a pale ak yon grenn moun, eske lòt moun ap vle kwè l lè l pale de esperyans pèsonèl pal..? Eske gen yon fason pou teste pawòl yon moun di sou do kreyatè a...?

Toutjan w vire l, nou mele...

gelin

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Post by admin » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:59 am

[quote]In a few places in the Bible, it is recorded how certain people gave their own words for the word of God himself. Within the Bible also there are ways to test them.[/quote]

[quote]Eske gen yon fason pou teste pawòl yon moun di sou do kreyatè a...?[/quote]
An bon pastè, Gelin toujou bay koze yo a demi pou fè fidèl yo reflechi.

Repons kesyon w lan, se "wi", puiske ou te fin di nou "there are ways to test them" (gen zouti nan Bib lan menm pou nou teste pawòl ki ekri nan Bib la).

Men, èske ou pral revele zouti sa yo oubyen ou jis anvi satiyèt nou?

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:20 am

Guy, se 2 koze wi k ap pale la a...

Pou yon moun ki deja kwè nan bondye ak nan bibla, li pa difisil pou itlize bibla pou teste (oubyen tate...:-) pawòl yon moun ap di sou do Bondye. Nan ka sa a, bibla gen zouti ladann ke yon nonm ka itilize pou ekzamine pawòl, mesaj, ak aksyon yon lòt moun.

Men, nan ka moun ki kwè gen yon kreyatè men ki pa kwè nan bibla (pou plizyè rezon valab), mwen mande Jaf eske li panse gen zouti ke nou ka itilize pou teste pawòl ak deklarasyon yon moun oubyen yon gwoup moun ka fè sou do kreyatè a - komkwa li te pale ak yo oubyen li te voye yo.

Sa vle di se pa yon bagay fasil li ye nan sans sa a...

gelin

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Post by admin » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:40 am

Mwen konprann ou, Gelin. Kounyè a, ban nou zouti yo.

Tayi_

Your Creed

Post by Tayi_ » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:34 pm

Hello Nekita,

How are you? After having read several of your postings, I am a little confused as to what you actually believe. Can you summarize for me what your creed is (I won't assume it is the Apostle's Creed or the Nicene Creed)? At one point I thought you were a professing Catholic, but I don't want to just assume. Just a brief summary will do.

Tayi

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:19 am

[quote]Mwen konprann ou, Gelin. Kounyè a, ban nou zouti yo.[/quote]
M ap vini. Nèg on tijan kwense.

gelin

Leonel JB

Post by Leonel JB » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:37 pm

Mezanmi, menm si m pa di anyen, map swiv oudimwen map sib.

Nekita map gade kijan moun ap debwouye yo nan Fairy tale Cinderella sa...

M pa ase entelijan pou m konprann kozman tET anba oudimwen dwat e goch sa yo. Ti nannan sEvel mwen twO piti.

Banm bEt, mesye dam. PetET, ma vinn kwE nan pE letEnel ankO??

La pE Bondye ake nou, byeneme.

leonel

Tayi_

Post by Tayi_ » Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:50 pm

These last recent posts should probably go under the "strictly for laughter" section! There is great light-heartedness.

But I guess I have to be a little serious, not too much.

Nekita,

I asked the question because There were a couple instances where I was just unclear as to what your positions on the matters were. I am not accusing you of being un-Catholic. In fact your defensiveness to that alleged accusation shows that you have great pride in being Catholic! That's awesome; I wish every Catholic took pride in being Catholic. I hope those instances I thought were unclear were just that--unclear (to me). If I come across them again, maybe I'll point them out and ask for your clarification so we can be on the same page.

As for education, I am a big proponent for learning. I also think dialogue with different views and religions is good, hence my being here. I hope one day to go back to Haiti and teach. So
I have nothing against your zeal for knowledge. Neither do I oppose asking questions. In fact, I believe it is St. Anselm (and maybe Aquinas) who described Theology as Fides quaerens intellectum, faith seeking understanding. Questions are beautiful, let's ask them.

So I support your desire to propagate the Faith with a concentration on the youth; I myself have done and am doing some youth ministry. I am glad that you are calling for books that explain the Catholic Faith in its entirety, without compromise, for people. Keep on keeping on!

Nou menm lot mesye yo, nou renmen zen! :-)

I think Nekita is sufficiently familiar with Catholic doctrine that she would not need me to point out if there are discrepancies between her stance and the Catholic one.

And, nou ban m gwo tit: Pe Tayi (I can't wait to get these accents working on my computer). I am not a priest, nor am I a former priest. I am a simple layman overwhelmed by the abundance of the
Love of God and trying to thank Him everyday through my words and actions. The least I can do as I face the Cross is say "Thank you, my Lord and my God!" and try to share that Love with others.

Nekita, (again :-))

In response to Jaf you said:
[quote]How does a fish get out of a fish bowl or a man made aquarium? Having been in place like the church for over 500 hundred years how are people like me or Tayi or 8 million Haitians will get out of that Christian faith.[/quote]

A couple sentences later, you said:
[quote]I am stuck in the fish bowl. I am waiting for Pè Tayi to get his net to get me out or his comments.[/quote]

So are you "stuck" in the Christian Faith against your will?
And you want me to get you out?

Well as to the latter question, I usually try to convince people to become Christian, not to leave Christianity. To the first question, if you are stuck against your will, well I do
n't know what to tell you. Jaf might say to swim out.

This last paragraph was my attempt at contributing to the laughter.

And Leonel, you crack me up! As to your comment about not being intelligent enough to understand...well remember the words of Gelin that those who are so humble will then ask the Lord and He will provide. That assumes, of course, there is place to place the grace--so keep your heart open. Maybe you will believe in the Lord again; how good that would be!

As always, this was your brother,
Tayi

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Post by admin » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:37 pm

[quote]The only setback is the los[s] of Paradise.[/quote]
Bouli, two points:

1) First, you should know that purgatory does not at all mean the loss of paradise. It is a temporary state discovered, I think, by the Church of Tayi. In the end, it too leads to Paradise, through the conversion of indulgences (which is the official currency of the Great Stock Market situated at the Gates of Heaven). If you want to know the exchange rate between that currency and the dollar (or euro, peso, yen, or gourde), you will need some expert bankers from the Vatican (perhaps Tayi may refer you to one).

2) Nekita claimed the Limbo for herself, not Purgatory. As far as I know, globalisation has yet to extend to the Limbo, so its general currency is not formally valued against any other currency, which makes travel virtually impossible between Limbo and any of the other three destinati
ons (heaven, purgatory, and hell). Contrary to many people's expectations, "Limbo" is not a dance, rather it is a joyless place reserved for non-baptised souls and souls in the making (such as aborted fetuses). Why would anyone wish to be there? Perhaps the secret resides in that, compared to Purgatory and Hell, it is a lot less hot there. Anyway, please ask Tayi about the four destinations of the after life, per the inerring teachings of the Bible augmented by the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I am sure that he will be glad to share his insights with you, much better than I could. And he can tell you specifically what I have gotten wrong in all of this.

So, Bouli, be careful when you speak of Paradise, Purgatory, Limbo, and Hell. Different currencies, different immigration and trade policies, different exit strategies (if any).

Kidonk, lò ou rive nan kalfou a... pito w rele Tayi oswa Gelin, paske si ou pa konnen kote w prale, se la menm wap rive.

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Post by admin » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:49 pm

[quote]I'm a little concerned for not knowing what's in the last order in scripture.[/quote]
Bouli, I am sure that Tayi would be happy to tell you, but he disappeared again. Maybe he is busy buying lots of tickets now in order to scalp them later. (Mezanmi, fò m sispann pran plezi konsa, paske se pa tout moun ki konprann se plezi wap pran ak yo. Gade jan Tayi te fache dèske li panse mwen te di ke li pa rasyonèl!). Bouli, gade, mwen pa pral menm kote avè w, tande. Sèl bagay ma ba ou nimewo selilè mwen epi visvèsa. Konsa na gade kontak. Kote sa va pi bon an, youn a louvri pòt la pou lòt.

Tayi_

Post by Tayi_ » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:58 pm

[quote][quote]I'm a little concerned for not knowing what's in the last order in scripture.[/quote]
Bouli, I am sure that Tayi would be happy to tell you, but he disappeared again. [/quote]

I'm baaack!

Actually I'm not sure what Bouli means in that statement. I think he may be reffering to the false idea that somehow the Catholic Church got rid of the Book of Revelation. If that is what my brother means, well we already discussed that. The Church will not deny Scripture. If that is not what he means then I am not sure.

Peace!
Tayi

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