If Jesus was on earth today...

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If Jesus was on earth today...

Post by admin » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:53 am

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/n ... 415729.stm

Jesus 'would not enter Vatican'

[quote]If Jesus was on earth today he would not take up residence in the Vatican, an Irish priest has said.

Father Shay Cullen said Jesus did not want a church and would have "been out on the dusty roads" helping those in need.

However, he praised the work of Pope John Paul II who had "a tremendous charismatic effect on the church".

Fr Cullen, 63, is a Columban missionary and head of the Preda Foundation in Olongapo City in the Philippines.

When he arrived more than 30 years ago, it was "a sex city" with a huge American military base which fed the sex industry, he said.

Finding difficulties working through the church, he set up an independent organisation separate from the church and state.

"I think that the emphasis now on evangelisation and mission has to be more to reach out to people in the grass-roots and people who are suffering in prison," he said.

"I am not saying the good Pope has not reached out from the Vatican.

"In fact, I think that is what is so remarkable - he did carry this very strong social message and was a great inspiration to us in the Philippines in 1981 when he came here.

"The church as an institution is always a big problem," he told BBC Northern Ireland on Wednesday.

"It is not so much the individual leaders, who are like Pope John Paul - a totally committed and dedicated man.

"We do have problems, of course, in the institutions where there is less of an involvement in the basic social work and dealing with the victims of human rights violations, of AIDS and of child sexual abuse."

Fr Cullen said he doubted if he would enter the church if he was considering a vocation now.

The church could do more to take a stand on behalf of victims of human rights in a global way, he said.

"Jesus never wanted a church. He never talked about a big institution.

"What would Jesus do today? I don't think he would take up residence in the Vatican. He would still be out on the dusty roads and down in the markets and on the radio and the TV, trying to get his message out."

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/n ... 415729.stm

Published: 2005/04/06 09:05:33 GMT

© BBC MMV[/quote]

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:40 am

Here is an example of how Jesus dealt with the religious leaders of his time - as reported by one of his first disciples:

[quote]Then Jesus said to the crowds and Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

“Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.'

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call an
yone on earth ‘father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. (Matthew 23:1-12)[/quote]

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Post by admin » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:53 am

[quote]Then Jesus said to the crowds and Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. [/quote]

Who sits in Moses' seat today ? ? ?

Is it Benedict XVI? Is it Archbishop Ligondé? Is it Terry Snow? Is it Cardinal Nicolas Lopez Rodriguez of the Dominican Republic? Is it Dr. Luc Luc Mésadieu or Dr. Chavannes Jeune? Is it George "God is on our side" Bush? Is it the pastor or preacher of your church? Who are today the teachers of the law who sit in Moses' seat and that we must obey? WHO ARE THEY?

But wait a minute, whoever they may be... " that you must obey and do everything they tell you " ! ! !

JUST WAIT A MINUTE! What if that modern-day Pharisee i
s called Jim Jones of fruit punch fame and or David Koresh of Waco fame??? Must you really do what that Pharisee tells you to do? Gosh! What if that modern-day Pharisee tells you not to distribute condoms, as a public health measure to a population that is being ravaged by a pandemic of AIDS? Must you really do what that modern-day Pharisee tells you to do? Hmm... What if that modern-day Pharisee tells you to lower your pants or take off your panties in the sweet name of Jesus? What if the modern-day Pharisee tells you to spy on your neighbor, to torture him and to kill him IN THE NAME OF GOD? What if... any goddamned authority tells you to do anything that is against your conscience? Must you still "obey them and do everything they tell you" ?

[quote]They make their phylacteries wide [/quote]
Phylacteries? I thought they were not supposed to wear those. Oops, my bad... I was thinking of prophylactics.

[quote]“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,' [/quote]
I am slightly confused, Gelin. How do YOU call the clergy of the Judaism religion? Surely, you must have talked to one or two along the way?

[quote]And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,'[/quote]
Now, you can remove the world "slightly" from my formerly described state of mind. What do you call your progenitor, Gelin? How do your children refer to you?

[quote]Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,'[/quote][/quote]
Oh.... forget about it! I truly do not take these quotes as literally as I made it sound. In fact, I can sense their wisdom, truthfully. So it's not the "rabbi/father/teacher" thing that troubles me. I absolutely do not take the Bible as literally as a lot of Christians do. But I like to play with ' Father Gege ' or Rabbi Jean Gelin's beard sometimes.

But the part about "you must obey" and "do everything they tell you"...I do have trouble with. Because I happen to believe that this blind obedience[/b
] to self-appointed or incestuously-appointed moral authorities is the cause of much evil on this earth. [Not that I promote disobedience either, especially if my own children are reading this.]

In the end, your conscience should be the final arbiter, whatever the consequences.

And wear those condoms, no matter what Benedict XVI will tell you!

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:33 pm

[quote]But the part about "you must obey" and "do everything they tell you"...I do have trouble with. Because I happen to believe that this blind obedience to self-appointed or incestuously-appointed moral authorities is the cause of much evil on this earth.[/quote]
I know very well you're kidding...:o)

Regarding your specific question, Jesus was talking about the conduct of the religious leaders of his time. When he mentioned the seat of Moses, he was talking about all those who have followed Moses as teachers of the law. Since the law was the covenant in place at that time, people had to obey the law, eventhough some of those who were teaching that very law of Moses were violating it constantly.

Also, Jesus was not talking about blind obedience since he categorically referred to the seat of Moses, meaning the entire law and religious system established by Moses. Obedience had
to come within the boundaries of that religious system or the law of Moses. Not blind, but covenant-based, and only for those who were partakers of that specific covenant.

Jesus gave different titles to his disciples. They were not fathers or rabbi but apostles, disciples, brothers/sisters...


gelin

Anacaona_

Post by Anacaona_ » Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:40 pm

[quote]Here is an example of how Jesus dealt with the religious leaders of his time - as reported by one of his first disciples:

[quote]Then Jesus said to the crowds and Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

“Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them ‘Rabbi.'

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all br
others. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. The greatest among you will be your servant. For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. (Matthew 23:1-12)[/quote]

gelin[/quote]

I would like to add one thing to this.
If Jesus was on earth today, He would have done exactly what is being said in the song "Andedan tanp lan" by Rene Charles de la semence d'en haut.

Peace to you all!

Anacaona!

Gelin_

Post by Gelin_ » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:44 pm

[quote]...If Jesus was on earth today, He would have done exactly</B> what is being said in the song "Andedan tanp lan" by Rene Charles de la semence d'en haut...[/quote]
Anacaona: could you please put the lyrics for us here? At least some of it for us to see and maybe make some comments.

gelin

Anacaona_

Post by Anacaona_ » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:06 pm

Andedan Tanp Lan
[quote]
"Andedan tanp lan,
Jezi kale machann yo
Li Kraze komes yo
Li mete yo deyo"

Pandan Jezi tap monte a Jerizalèm
Tout moun nan vil la kanpe pou resevwa L
Gen moun ki tap mande se ki lès moun li ye
Lòt tap di se Jezi de Nazarèt.
Lè Jezi prèske rive bo tanp Bon Dye ya
Li gade li wè mache ya mangonmen
Jezi kanpe li di, èske nou pa konnen
Isit la se kote moun lapriyè

Lè nou wè sa kap pase anndan tanp lan
« Si Jezi te sou la tè li tap kale yo »
Gen pastè k vann legliz la
Yo divize legliz la
Pafwa yo menm goumen nan legiz la
Pafwa menm yo al jije nan tribinal
E you di se sèvitè Bon Dye yo ye
Yo divise legliz la
Yo boulvèse legliz la
Nap mande kisa Jezi di nan sa
[/quote]


I use quotation mark in some places to show what Jesus would do if He was on earth today.

In the song, we can ac
tually replace Tanp and legliz by peyi, Pastè by politicians and Jezi by Dessalines. Then, we will be able to see what Dessalines would do with our politicians, and I am sure that "se pa kale sèlman Desalin tap kale yo".

Shellony

Post by Shellony » Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:25 pm

Anacaona,
we do not need to replace "machann" by anything because that's exactly what our politicians, "elite", "intellectuels" are. Pifo nan yo se yon bann machann peyi

Shelony

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