Same-Sex Unions in the Anglican Church...

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Gelin
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Same-Sex Unions in the Anglican Church...

Post by Gelin » Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:11 pm

Clock Running Out on Episcopal Church: One Month to Go</B>
by: Loralei Coyle

As of August 30, the Episcopal Church has only one month left to respond to the requests of Anglican Communion leaders (called "primates") voiced in their February 2007 communiqué. In that communiqué, the primates asked the Episcopal Church's House of Bishops to reverse the denomination's course regarding the blessing of same-sex unions and the ordination of bishops in a same-sex relationship.

IRD Director of Anglican Action Ralph Webb commented:

"With the clock rapidly running out on the Episcopal Church, the pressure is on for the denomination to place the good of the worldwide Anglican Communion above its own interests. Unfortunately, the denomination still gives little hope that it will rise to meet the needs of not only the Communion to which it belongs, but the entire body of Christ.

"Just earlier this week, the Very Rev. Tracey Lind, an open and partnered lesbian, was nominated for Bishop of Chicago. The nomination clearly goes against the spirit of the primates' requests and illustrates the hardness of heart toward the primates demonstrated by many in the Episcopal Church today. It should not be overlooked in all the discussion of Rev. Lind that apparently all five candidates for bishop support the Episcopal Church's movement toward what progressives commonly call the 'full inclusion' of gays and lesbians.

"That goal, according to Episcopal Church Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori, 'is part of [the denomination's] mission.' The House of Bishops also defined it last March as part of the 'gospel' that the Episcopal Church is called to preach. Yet that goal and many other examples of jettisoning biblical, traditional Anglican faith have led thousands of orthodox Anglicans to leave the Episcopal Church.

"And it is precisely those deviations from orthodox faith and practice that put the Episcopal Church outside of the mainstream of not just the Anglican Communion, but the larger body of Christ. Make no mistake: the Episcopal Church's actions dangerously compromise the holiness of the church and its members. The Anglican Communion primates clearly recognize that fact. Will the Episcopal Church put the good of the worldwide church ahead of its own desires? Or will it remain insistent, as its Executive Council said in June, that it can only be what it is? The clock is running out."

Source: http://www.articlesofinfo.com/

Leoneljb
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Oun repons onEt

Post by Leoneljb » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:01 am

Gelin, Eske'w panse ke de Moun de menm sEks kapab marye?

Mwen ta renmen wE oun repons onEt de tout moun ki vle reponn ak koze sa'a.

PEsonElman, mwen panse ke yo pa kapab marye nan youn seri de legliz paske nou tout konnen ke relijyon deja seksis e omofobik. Men, pa gen mal si yo deside marye sivil, Se tout dwa yo!

Sa nou panse?

Leonel

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Guysanto
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Post by Guysanto » Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:38 am

Leonel, mwen dakò avèk ou nan sans chak legliz gen dwa tabli règ jwèt yo jan yo pito, depi yo tou respekte dwa moun ki pa kole ak yo.

Si 2 gason oswa 2 fi vle viv ansanm e konsidere tèt yo tankou mari ak fanm, mari ak mari, fanm ak fanm, mwen panse depi yo fè tout bagay yo legal, se zafè pa yo e nou dwe respekte sa.

Men legliz pa wè bagay la konsa. Se dwa pa legliz tou. Tout enstitisyon gen règ pa yo. Men yo pa gen dwa pèsekite nan sosyete-a moun ki refize suiv règ sa yo.

Si Legliz Anglikàn ak Legliz Episkopal pa kabab antann yo sou zafè maryaj omoseksyèl, ak òdinasyon pè ak evèk ki omeseksyèl, ke yo separe, pwen final. Lò sa, fidèl yo va chwazi ki legliz ki satisfè yo plis.

Mwen pa mache legliz, men mwen gen prejije pa m tou. M ale legliz pou maryaj ak lantèman. Mwen pa kwè m'ap janm enterese ale nan maryaj 2 fi ou 2 gason. Sa pap janm enterese mwen, men mwen pa gen pwoblèm si nou abite kòt a kòt, si yo pwofesè nan lekòl pitit mwen, elatriye. Yo gen dwa aplike pou tout privilèj La-Lwa akòde koup tradisyonèl yo, depi yo ranpli tout fòmalite mwen te gen pou mwen ranpli tou. Yo gen dwa twouve pwoteksyon Leta garanti tout fanmi. Se moun yo ye. En pwen sè tou.

An menm tan tou, mwen pa wè pou ki sa sèten nan yo chwazi pou yo mete drapo omoseksyèl ("gay flag") flote devan kay yo. Keep your pride to yourself, dude! Dayè, mwen pa janm konprann pou ki moun mete drapo "de nenpòt ki sòt" devan kay yo.

Bouli

Post by Bouli » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:29 pm

Gelin,
E oumenm ki sa ou panse? Eske zafE kabrit pa zafE mouton? kOmkwa se bagay ki konsEne legliz episkopal sElman.

Depi Legliz te legliz li toujou cho pou-l monte kabann de moun ki vle viv ansanm. KilEs ki pral premye di li pa vle menage-a-trois?

Chakjou legliz ap pEdi kliyan, si ta gen you evenman ki atire plis moun legliz ap toujou louvri de bra ba li. Youn nan evenman sa yo se maryaj de gason, de fanm oubyen you group moun sa yo deside marye ansanm. Pita legliz pral di li pap marye you neg ki damou chat, kabrit, mounton, cheval, koulEv li...(fanm ap toujou pye pou pye dEyE gason nan zafE revandikasyon pou legliz apwouve)

Eske legliz ap eseye epaye paran ki pito mouri pase yo ta mache pitit fi oubyen gason bay you lOt fanm oubyen gason sou tapi wouj nan mitan kongregasyon kote timoun yo leve? Antouka li deja twO ta pou legliz ta negosye you perik pou maske neg ak moustach ki pral bo mari yo nan bab monpE.

Jgpalmis
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Post by Jgpalmis » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:24 pm

Se pa jodi-a non fenomèn gason/gason, Fi/fi sa-a ap pran teren. Li soti nan peryòd anba chal pou li parèt tou limen devan je tout moun. Gen anpil moun (mwen menm tou) k'ap reyaji sou sa paske sa fin debalanse lòd etabli depi plizyè jenerasyon nan mitan sosyete ki peple latè. Kanta moun legliz yo, yo te toujou kanpe an kwa devan fenomèn sa-a, menm lè gen bri k' di anpil nan pastè yo sede anba tantasyon; yo di genyen ladan yo ki nan de (6) kole. Anfèt y'ap pratike, sa yap preche kont li a. Sa-a se pwoblèm legliz la, se li ki pou chache jwenn solisyon pwoblèm sa-a paske gen anpil nan mesye l' sa yo ki blije al devan jij (Tankou sila yo yo jwenn ki koupab de zak malonèt yo fè sou tilezanj òfelen yo te gen pou pwoteje nan peyi Kanada Ozetazini elt) Ann Ayiti, nou poko tande anyen men gen zen ki soti nan lari deja...M'swete yon jou va gen yon bagay ki fèt sou sa.

Jounen jodi gwoup moun k'ap viv lavi yo kò masisi ou madivinèz abò yon tren ki genlè pa pre pou li kanpe. Dèfwa mwen gen lenpresyon fòk mwen fè anpil atansyon pou tren sa-a pa kraze mwen. Sa m'vle di sèke m'rann mwen kont mwen blije veye bouch mwen pou yo pa kole etikèt (omofòb) sou mwen. Kesyon m'ap poze tèt mwen èske m'oblije santi mwen konsa?

Pou mwen, li toutafè nòmal pandan tren sa-a ap pase gen moun k'ap reziste , paske se tout yon pèsepsyon sou rapò fi ak gason k'ap pran yon lòt direksyon devan je moun ki pa wè bagay yo menm jan ak yo. Se pa sèlman rapò endividi ak endividi ki nan kolizyon men tou tout nosyon fanmi, Koup tradisyonèl Gason Fi elt.

Gen plizyè senaryo,

Antre nan kanpay opozisyon an fas Masisi ak madivinèz
Aprann viv ak yo nan respè lalwa
Rete ak pozisyon pa m'
Preche yo jiskaske yo chanje elt.

Poulemoman mwen nan chimen aprann viv ak yo nan respè pou lalwa ak dwa moun.

Gelin
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:52 pm

Post by Gelin » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:19 pm

M mache kole ak anpil nan sa Guy di yo. Men pèsonèlman, m kwè se yon deranjman pou yon gason vle marye ak yon gason parèy li, oubyen pou yon fanm vle marye ak yo fanm parèy li. M pa kwè li fè sans, e m preche kont li nan mitan kretyen parèy mwen. Men se pa tout aspè kesyon an.

Sou sit sa a, gen koze ki sipote kesyon desiskole a e gen opinyon ki kont li tou. Voye je nou: http://atheism.about.com/od/gaymarriage ... Sacred.htm

gelin

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Guysanto
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Post by Guysanto » Sat Sep 08, 2007 6:14 pm

[quote]M pa kwè li fè sans, e m preche kont li nan mitan kretyen parèy mwen.[/quote]
Gelin, mwen kontan wè ou tounen. Mwen te panse ou fè yon kout "Lemane Vaillant" sou nou. :D

Men ti pwoblèm mwen gen nan zafè preche kont homo yo:

1) Lò ou nan mitan kretyen parèy ou ki gen menm kwayans e menm tandans seksyèl avèk ou, w'ap preche "to the choir". Si yo hetero, ki te mele yo si w'ap kondane zak homo yo. Yo pa enterese fè l de tout fason.

2) Men gen danje pou yo entèprete kondanasyon w lan tankou yon envitasyon pou diskrimine kont homo yo. Apeprè menm bagay ak vodouyizan yo tou. Lò Pastè a fin pale, fidèl yo kab santi yo jistifye pou yo derespekte dwa sosyal ni homoseksyèl ni vodouyizan yo tou, paske "moun sa yo" se pou Satan y'ap travay. Kidonk, li nòmal pou fidèl yo vle fè "Bondye" plezi nan detwi tout sa ki kab fè Bondye fache.

3) Si se avèk homo yo-menm w'ap preche, èske yo pral koute ou menm? Yo pral di : "Wi, Gelin, ou gen rezon!" Epi lò limyè a monte nan tèt yo, yo pral chache menm nivo satisfaksyon seksyèl heteroseksyèl twouve tou lò yo tenyen limyè a (tankou: "Cherie, mwen toujou di-w ou pa bezwen kite kilòt sou ou lò w vin kouche bò kote-m") [Homo yo menm, mwen pap menm imajine sa yo di...]

Lò limyè a monte nan tèt ou, e ou kapab pran plezi ou legalman, konbyen moun pral di non, mwen pap fè sa paske monpè/pastè di non!

4) Si se homo toujou, epi yo pran prèch la oserye, bon ki altènativ ou pral ba yo? Eske fòk yo reste fristre seksyèlman tout vi yo? E si yo fristre konsa, èske sa pa gen danje ladan-l tou? [Tankou tout monpè pedofil nan Legliz Katolik yo, èske yo tap aji menm jan si yo te gen libète gen fanm yo tankou tout moun? Mwen konnen mwen chanje sijè a wi, men se yon egzanp paralèl mwen te vle bay.] Sa mwen vle di, sè ke fristrasyon seksyèl se yon bagay ki danjere anpil. Nan optik pa ou, Gelin, si homoseksyèl la pa fèt pou li fè sèks selon oryantasyon seksyèl li e dezi ewotik li toujou epwouve, ki sa ojis ou fè pou li Gelin lò ou preche kont li? Ki byen ou fè pou li e pou lasosyete, amwenske se "nanm li" ou panse ou rachte?

Dieu vit que ce qu'il a fait était bon... et il ferma ses yeux à toutes les imperfections: "J'ai grand sommeil, dit-Il. Ce qui en reste, cela reviendra aux prédicateurs..."

Gelin
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Post by Gelin » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:32 pm

[quote]Gelin, mwen kontan wè ou tounen. Mwen te panse ou fè yon kout "Lemane Vaillant" sou nou. :D [/quote]
Non monchè, m pa vole gagè menmjan ak LeVaillant. Nèg okipe anpil, kidonk mwen ontijan o ralanti nan jwèt la.

[quote] Lò ou nan mitan kretyen parèy ou ki gen menm kwayans e menm tandans seksyèl avèk ou, w'ap preche "to the choir". Si yo hetero, ki te mele yo si w'ap kondane zak homo yo. Yo pa enterese fè l de tout fason.[/quote]
Anndan yon legliz gen tout kalte lide kap bwase. Pami manm yo, gen ansyen masisi ki konvèti, e gen jèn gason ak jèn fi ki ap kontanple lide a akoz de frekantasyon yo, de laj yo, de sa yap li ak tande...Anplis de sa gen moun tou ki pa nan lafwa ditou men ki nan mitan legliz la pou yon rezon kanmenm. Se pa tou moun ki nan koral la kap chante vre...

[quote]2) Men gen danje pou yo entèprete kondanasyon w lan tankou yon envitasyon pou diskrimine kont homo yo. Apeprè menm bagay ak vodouyizan yo tou. Lò Pastè a fin pale, fidèl yo kab santi yo jistifye pou yo derespekte dwa sosyal ni homoseksyèl ni vodouyizan yo tou, paske "moun sa yo" se pou Satan y'ap travay. Kidonk, li nòmal pou fidèl yo vle fè "Bondye" plezi nan detwi tout sa ki kab fè Bondye fache.[/quote]
Youn nan mesaj nouvo kontra a se 'pa pale moun mal'. Nan levanjil la gen diferans ant moun (sitèlman moun gen valè pou Jézi, li bay lavil pou yo) e aksyon moun ap fè. Levanjil la mande pou moun ki kwè</b> chanje aksyon yo (nouvelle naissance, konvèti, repanti). Moun ki pa kwè sou kont bondye e sa pa dwa okenn moun ki kwè pou yo kondane moun ki pa kwè.

[quote]3) Si se avèk homo yo-menm w'ap preche, èske yo pral koute ou menm? [/quote]
Sa depan, si yon desiskole panse ke sa lap fè a dwat, m pa gen anyen m ka di l non. Li sou kont Bondye. Si li panse ke sa m kwè a pa bon, nou ka chita pale.

[quote]...[Homo yo menm, mwen pap menm imajine sa yo di...]..[/quote]
Pou kòmanse, youn ka manyen bab lòt, grate pòmdadan....:-(

[quote]4) Si se homo toujou, epi yo pran prèch la oserye, bon ki altènativ ou pral ba yo? [/quote]
Kesyon sa a loooong. Si moun nan pran mesaj lafwa a oserye, mesaj la pral tounen byen prive l pou l aplike nan pwòp vi pa l.

[quote]...[Tankou tout monpè pedofil nan Legliz Katolik yo, èske yo tap aji menm jan si yo te gen libète gen fanm yo tankou tout moun? Mwen konnen mwen chanje sijè a wi, men se yon egzanp paralèl mwen te vle bay.] [/quote]
Mesaj levanjil la pa mande pou gason pa marye. Okontrè li mande pou moun kap dirije legliz gen madanm ak pitit. Sa a se yon lòt kesyon.


[quote]Sa mwen vle di, sè ke fristrasyon seksyèl se yon bagay ki danjere anpil. Nan optik pa ou, Gelin, si homoseksyèl la pa fèt pou li fè sèks selon oryantasyon seksyèl li e dezi ewotik li toujou epwouve, ki sa ojis ou fè pou li Gelin lò ou preche kont li? Ki byen ou fè pou li e pou lasosyete, amwenske se "nanm li" ou panse ou rachte?[/quote]
M gen ekzanp nèg ki konvèti e ki kite masisi, menmjan m gen ekzanp moun ki konvèti e ki kite bwè tafya, oubyen kite fè bouzen. Youn nan aspè levajil la sè ke yon moun ki kwè dwe etidye pwòp tèt pa l pou esye jwenn kote dezi, emosyon ak tanperaman l soti....fouye zo nan kalalou. Si yon moun kite desiskole senpleman paske li tande yon moun di sa pa bon, anben li pap ka rive lwen. Men si se akoz de pwòp lafwa pa l nan Bondye li kite, anben gen anpil chans pou l viv nòmal san gade dèyè.

Guy, ou anmède m twòp tande....:-)

gelin

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Guysanto
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Post by Guysanto » Wed Sep 26, 2007 6:23 pm

BBC News --

Gay bishop move rejected by Kenya

The head of Kenya's Anglican Church has rejected a compromise over gay bishops by US Episcopal Church leaders.

They have said they will halt the ordination of gay bishops and public blessings of same-sex relationships to prevent a split in the Anglican Church.

"That word 'halt' is not enough," said Archbishop Benjamin Nzimbi.

Many African Anglicans threatened to leave the worldwide Anglican Communion after the ordination of the first openly gay bishop four years ago.

The American Church was told to meet the conditions by 30 September or lose membership of the communion.

US bishops made the decision after a six-day meeting in New Orleans.

The meeting was attended in part by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, who urged the Episcopal Church to make concessions for the sake of unity.

'Repent'

Last month, Archbishop Nzimbi presided over the consecration of two US bishops, Bill Murdoch and Bill Atwood, who left the US branch of the Anglican Church - the Episcopal Church - after it consecrated an openly gay bishop, Gene Robinson, in 2003.

The Kenyan archbishop said the US church leaders' comments did not go far enough.

"What we expected to come from them is to repent - that this is a sin in the eyes of the Lord and repentance is what me, in particular, and others expected to hear coming from this church," he said.

Correspondents say it was hoped the agreement would help defuse the crisis.

But Assistant Bishop of Kampala, Ugandan David Zac Niringiye, says it was "not a change of heart" and showed the church was already split.

"What this situation has brought to the fore is the malaise - something much deeper - that the entire communion has not dealt with and the consecration of Bishop Gene really brought to the surface something that was there," he told the BBC's Focus on Africa programme.

"It is not the same church because it's broken on very fundamental lines."

Traditionalists in the US are already making plans to set up their own independent church.

Conservative churchgoers believe homosexuality is contrary to the Church's teachings.

However, liberal Anglicans have argued that biblical teachings on justice and inclusion should take precedence.

The Episcopal bishops did reaffirm their commitment to the civil rights of gay people and said they opposed any violence towards them or violation of their dignity.

The meeting in New Orleans follows a summit of Anglican leaders in Tanzania earlier in the year which gave the US Episcopal Church a deadline of 30 September to define its position on the issue.

The leaders threatened that a failure to do so would leave their relationship with the US branch of Anglicanism "damaged at best".
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/w ... 014907.stm

Published: 2007/09/26 16:54:53 GMT

© BBC MMVII

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