Voodoo as a religion? (1)

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Gifrants

Voodoo as a religion? (1)

Post by Gifrants » Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:32 pm

It is dramatically dangerous that, in the beginning of the 21st century, when it is becoming increasingly understood that our experience with God is a personal one, that Haitian officials in their despair and blindness decide to make Voodoo a religion.

I, myself, am a Ginen, and my interpretation of Voodoo, which should not be imposed on anybody, concludes that voodoo is just a "door", the same way the masonry, rose-cross and all other spiritual sects help their members understand the mystery of God, life and existence.

The oral traditions of Voodoo have endured so many deviations throughout the years, that the subtle interpretations of those hidden messages have lost their true meaning. The loa, the zanj, the Ginen are learning just like us, even though they are immortal beings who should reach the Central Isle of Paradise some day, just like the few of us. We do not need the loa, and the zanj between God and us. No ritual should require that we bow in front of any of my Older Brothers, who they happen to be, or even worse, rely on them in order to face our own existence. IT IS WRONG.

Jean Bertrand Aristide, enough is enough. God the Father, God the Son and God, the Holy Spirit represents the divine trilogy. The devil's trilogy includes Satan, Lucifer and Politics. As a priest, you should have never been involved in politics in the first place. However it is your right and privilege to decide your fate. But you have no such a right to lead my Haitian Brothers and Sisters on the path of perdition.

My 1,111 Older Brothers have been tested by the rebellion of Satan. No one can seduce them. I duly rely on them to enlighten my brothers and sisters on behalf of our Father and Creator, Michael of Nebadon, and to strengthen the faith of those whose final destination is the Central Isle of Paradise.

Ayibobo!

JBHonore

questions

Post by JBHonore » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:02 pm

what is an Ginen?
Is it some sort of Catholic brotherhood?

Gifrants

Post by Gifrants » Thu Aug 28, 2003 8:52 am

Kite koze pran pawol

Avek tout kontantman zot manifeste pou tande ke vodou se yon relijyon, zot blye responsabilite ki vinn chita sou zepol houngan. Ki houngan nou genyen?

Moun yo ki kontan yo, mwen ka renmen we nou lonje men nou san krent ba yon houngan byen madre.

Moun ki kontan yo, mwen ka renmen nou rantre nan yon humfo san krentif.

Moun ki kontan yo, mwen ka renmen le houngan di n ap bwe de kout tafya nan boutey nwa li, nou bwe san krentif.

Moun ki kontan yo, mwen ka renmen le nou rive lakay houngan an, li ofri nou chita sou yon chez kite nan yon kwen, nou chita sou li san krentif.

Moun ki kontan yo, mwen ka renmen le houngan ofri nou manje lakay li, nou manje san krentif.

Moun ki kontan yo, mwen ka renment le houngan louvri men nou, li di l ap fe nou yon ti kado, nou pran sa li ban nou an san krentif

Eske vodou a se houngan vre ki konnen li?

Eske vodou a se pa houngan me
nm ki lakoz yo we li mal kon sa?

Vodou a vre ki sa li ye?

Ki sa li fe pou nou vre? Ki bon antant, ki bon asosyason li mete nan mitan nou? Koman nou sevi ak li? Konbyen Ayisyen ki konnen sa li ye vre?

Neg dekrete, neg fe diskou, neg opine, neg ap fe demagoji. Peyizan an ki respekte vodou a, e ki sevi ak vodou mal ke mal jan li kapab ap toufonnen anba Neg ki foute yo pa mal e de fanmi, e de zanmi e de peyi. Okontre vodou tounen yon zam motel pou inosan ak malere k ap pase mize e k ap pedi lavi yo.

Moun ap pale tiliti sou Fowom kom si vodou se te yon bagay e neg lavil, e neg save, e boujwa ann Ayiti konsidere pou yo mete nan salon yo. Preske tout moun regle koze yo a kashkash.

Zafe dekrete vodou se yon relijyon pi mal pase tout trajedi ak mize nou menm pep Ayisyen konnen deja. Fe son kriyote omakzimom, yon malis nan pawoksism li pouki mete nou nan yon tchouboum konsa. Relijyon sa baze sou tradisyon. Tout liv ki ekri sou li diskouri sou entepretasyon. Tout lwa, tout reglema
n relijyon sa pa perenize sou bout papye. Tout se pawol nan bouch.

Jodya genyen gwo diskisyon, pa genyen yon liv vodou ki se tablet etenel lesen lonje pa yon Houngan pou yo di sa vodou ye. Referans tout moun, se entepretasyon. Tout moun domi reve. Tout moun genyen gwo bonnanj. Tout moun regle koze yo jan yo kapab. Tout moun di sa yo vle ak bouch yo tou. Se pelmel, se melimelo.

Mwen prevwa ke zafe vodou kom relijyon sa a, l ap kraze kanmenm. Bon vodou a telman ke mal ki fet sou do li, te deja zafe fanmi--Zafe fanmi l ap rete. Nou sanble nou pa menm. Se pa antant nou pa vle non. Se yon pije pou ki fet pou tout bagay antre nan plas yo. Vodou a pa yon relijyon, se yon pot ki soti nan ginen ki louvri anwo ve le paradi. Se pa mwen ki ajoute sa. Se sa lesen aprann mwen. Mwen pa te janm mande lesen ni chans, ni sante, ni pwoteksyon, mwen te mande gidans ak limye pou mwen konnen ki moun mwen ye. Mwen konn ki moun mwen ye, kote m soti, kote m prale. Mwen konn ki moun yo ye, kote yo soti, kote yo prale.
Gran fre an wen yo ye. Vodou a pa yon relijyon.

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Post by admin » Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:50 am

Jbhonore asked: "What is a Ginen?" Allow me to follow suit, Gifrants, with some other basic questions of my own. You previously said:

[quote]My 1,111 Older Brothers have been tested by the rebellion of Satan. No one can seduce them. I duly rely on them to enlighten my brothers and sisters on behalf of our Father and Creator, Michael of Nebadon, and to strengthen the faith of those whose final destination is the Central Isle of Paradise.[/quote]

Could you give me some references to learn about the "1,111 Older Brothers", about "Michael of Nebadon", about "the Central Isle of Paradise"? Is the knowledge about such central to Vodou or is it a connection between Vodou and other? Who currently inhabits the Central Isle of Paradise? Are we (or some of us) called to inhabit it also some day and under what circumstances?Most people I have met (even the atheists) call
the 'Father and Creator' (or notion thereof) "God". Ezili Danto and most Haitian peasants I have talked to call (him/her) "Gran Mèt la". I am however willing to bare my utter ignorance to all when I say that I had not previously come across the name "Michael de Nebadon" before seeing it in your own writings on this forum or ever since. I am not trying to challenge you in a negative way. I just mean to ask, could you give us some references to this "Michael de Nebadon" and how he came to be called that way? And how does he relate to the "Older Brothers", to "Lesen", to "Zanj yo", to "Lwa" yo, to "Ginen" yo, to Vodouist initiates and non-initiates, to non-Vodouists, and finally to non-believers and atheists?

Please do not be antagonized by my questions. Take any part of them you think are relevant and ignore the rest. I think that the discussion about whether Vodou is a religion or not is a non-starter on this forum, unless we are willing to address some basic tenets of Vodou beliefs or Haitian ex
istentialism. Answer what you can or will, and I hope that others will do the same. Let's break away from perpetual antagonistic or adversarial attitudes in our posts, and contribute to our collective wisdom as a people.

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