HAITI, From Revolution To The Kidnapping of a President

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Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

HAITI, From Revolution To The Kidnapping of a President

Post by Michel Nau » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:17 am

On February 29th, 2004 the democratically elected president of Haiti, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, was forced to leave his country. The twice elected President was kidnapped, along with his Haitian-American wife, American soldiers and flown, against his will, to the isolated Central African Republic. Although the American government has denied ousting Aristide it was clear that the Haitian people's most recent attempt at self-determination had not been crushed by Haitian paramilitaries as Washington claimed.
In An Unbroken Agony, bestselling author and social justice advocate Randall Robinson explores the heroic and tragic history of Haiti. He traces the history of a people forced across the Atlantic in chains; recounting their spectacularly successful slave revolt against France and the two hundred years of reprisals that would follow. The fate of Aristide's presidency is tied to this people's century-long quest for self-determination and his removal from power exposes the apartheid-like forces that frustrate these aspirations even today.

http://www.randallrobinson.com/buy_agony.html

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Nou pa konn ki yes pou'm kwe!! Chak moun gen yon grenn zanno kay ofev.

Post by Michel Nau » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:57 am

The author, Mr. Randall Robinson was this morning on Democracy Now with Amy Goodman to promote his latest book, Unbroken Agony, From Revolution to the kidnapping of a President. http://www.democracynow.org/

This is a wonderful book for people who are interested in the history of Haiti, however, to us Haitians, c'est du déjà vue. The book could have been more credible if Mr. Robinson's wife Hazel, wasn't on President Aristide's payroll for so many years.
People need to clean their closet and get rid of these skeletons. Otherwise, sooner or later they will come back and hunt you.

Michel

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Post by Michel Nau » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:47 pm

I am putting the entire transcript here since it's more likely that Democracy Now will remove it soon. A lot of you, when you have a chance may use it as a reference for your writings.
This will give you an idea how foreigners write our history.
They do it the way they want it and in according to their political interest.
Nevertheless, we, Haitians we don't have to get paid to write it because we are living it everyday.

AMY GOODMAN: 10,000 people marched in the Haitian capital of Port Au-Prince last Sunday. They were calling for the return of the exiled president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. It was his fifty-fourth birthday. This is Haitian folksinger and Lavalas leader Annette Auguste, more well known as “So An,” speaking at the rally.
ANNETTE AUGUSTE: [translated] It is a nice way to say happy birthday to President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, who is in exile in South Africa today. There are people watching the final between Brazil and Argentina. Still, it is good to see so many of the population who took to the streets for a good cause. I always say that since December of 1991. Nothing has changed for the population.
LOUIS GERARD GILLES: [translated] Today's rally shows that the majority of the Haitian people are asking for the return of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide. If there is a state of right existing in Haiti today, it is just for the government of President Rene Preval to do the right thing. It is unjust to have this politician in exile.
DEMONSTRATOR: [translated] President Aristide will come back, and when he does, we will all cry for victory, because the real hope is with President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, not with Preval.
AMY GOODMAN: On February 29th, 2004, three years ago, the democratically elected president of Haiti, Jean-Bertrand Aristide, was removed from office by the United States and flown to the Central African Republic. Two weeks later, in defiance of the United States, a delegation led by California Congressmember Maxine Waters and TransAfrica founder Randall Robinson chartered a plane and headed off to the Central African Republic themselves to bring President Aristide and his wife Mildred back to the Caribbean. I accompanied them on that trip. After hours of negotiating with the dictator in the capital Bangui, they freed the Aristides. As we flew back over the Atlantic President Aristide said he had been kidnapped in a US-backed coup d'etat.
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE: I will not go into details, maybe next time. But as I said, they used force. When you have militaries coming from abroad, surrounding your house, taking control of the airport, surrounding the national palace, being in the streets, and taking you from your house to put you in a plane where you have to spend twenty hours without knowing where they were going to go with you, without talking about details, which I already did somehow on other occasions, it was using force to take an elected president out of his country.

AMY GOODMAN: And was that US military that took you out?

JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE: There were US military, and I suspect it could be also completed with the presence of other militaries from other countries.
AMY GOODMAN: When they came to your house, in the early morning of February 29th, was it US military that came?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE: There were diplomats. There were US military. There were US people.
AMY GOODMAN: The Bush administration said that when you -- after you got on the plane, when you were leaving, you spoke with CARICOM leaders. Is this true?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE: They lied. I never had any opportunity from February 28 at night, when they started, to the minute I arrived in car, I never had any conversation with anyone from CARICOM within that frame of time.
AMY GOODMAN: How many US military were on the plane with you?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE: I cannot know how many were there, but I know it's the plane with fifty-five seats. Among them we had nineteen American agents […] The rest, they were American militaries.
AMY GOODMAN: Were they dressed in military uniform?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE: They were not only dressed in -- with their uniform, it was like if they were going to war. For the first period of time on the ground, when we went to the plane, after the plane took off, that's the way they were. Then they changed, moving from the uniform to other kind of clothes.
AMY GOODMAN: Civilian clothing?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: And did they go with you all the way to the Central African Republic?
JEAN-BERTRAND ARISTIDE: They did, without telling me where they were taking me, without telling me how long it would take us to be there.
AMY GOODMAN: Exiled President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in a plane heading back to the Caribbean. Then it was to Jamaica. It's now more than three years later. The Aristides remain in exile in South Africa. And Randall Robinson has just written a book called An Unbroken Agony: Haiti, From Revolution to the Kidnapping of a President. He flew in from the Caribbean island of St. Kitts last night and joins us in our firehouse studio today. Welcome to Democracy Now!, Randall Robinson.

RANDALL ROBINSON: Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, it's been three years since you and Congressmember Maxine Waters, Sharon Hay-Webster, the member of parliament from Jamaica, led that delegation on this small plane to the Central African Republic, actually won the release of the Aristides and brought them to Jamaica. Talk about that, as you watched President Aristide three years ago in the plane that you were in, as well, what you have learned since?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, we talked to -- I talked to a number of witnesses, eyewitnesses to the abduction itself, witnesses in Antigua who saw the plane on the ground, airport officials, and, of course, witnesses to the whole operation and things that have gone on in Haiti.
AMY GOODMAN: Why don't you flesh out that entire experience that President Aristide was just talking about, as you understand it today? What happened February 29, 2004?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, Franz Gabriel was the president's helicopter pilot. Franz Gabriel was a sergeant in the US military and a Haitian citizen who had gone home to serve in the government and to helicopter the president around. At about 3:00 on the morning of the 29th, he was called by one of the Haitian security people at the president's home in Tabar and told that something wrong was developing in the president's house.
I had placed a call to the president earlier that evening on the 28th, and a voice that didn't belong to the house answered the phone. It was an American voice, a male American voice. And I said, “May I speak to President Aristide?” “He's not here.” “May I speak to Madame Aristide?” His American-born wife, Mildred Trouillot Aristide. And, “She's not here.” “When will they be?” And I'm cut off. I became concerned. I had never heard a strange voice answer their private phones before.
We had -- my wife Hazel had worked to arrange a visit of Tavis Smiley to Haiti on the 29th. He was to interview the president downtown in central Port-au-Prince at the palace about this turmoil that was unfolding in the north of the country. The rebels, armed by the United States, had entered the country early in February, moved north and away from the capital and never showed, never demonstrated any inclination to attack Port-au-Prince. And so, we were concerned in the United States, because most of us didn't know that they posed no threat to the democratic government, and so Tavis was going there to interview the president, and George Stephanopoulos was to interview him, as well.
And so, after I was unable to reach the president, Tavis Smiley called me, or called my wife, because my wife was the one who was organizing his visit. He said, “The visit's off.” And my wife said, “Oh, no! Has something happened to them?” And Tavis said, “No. I just got a call from Secretary of State Colin Powell. And Secretary of State Powell said to me that” --

AMY GOODMAN: This is Tavis?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Tavis, no -- well, yes, no. Tavis said that he got a call from Ron Dellums. And Ron Dellums also worked with my wife on the Haiti team. And Ron Dellums reported to Tavis that he had just gotten a call from Secretary of State Colin Powell and that the secretary said that Guy Philippe, the leader of the paramilitaries, the American-armed and -trained paramilitaries, was coming to Port-au-Prince on Sunday to kill the president. “And I want you, Ron Dellums, to let the president know that this is going to happen, and let him know that the United States will do nothing to protect him.” And so, Tavis said, of course, the trip is off.

And then my wife called Ron Dellums, and Ron said, “Yes, I've just heard from the secretary, and Guy Philippe is in Port-au-Prince and will kill Aristide tomorrow, according to Secretary of State Powell,” who had to have known that Guy Philippe was nowhere near Port-au-Prince. President Aristide, of course, knew, because he had gotten reports from Franz Gabriel. The idea was to frighten Aristide into abdicating his office and fleeing the country on a plane provided by the United States. And Aristide refused.
Later that morning, about thirty American Special Forces troops in full combat gear, in twelve or thirteen white Chevy Suburbans of the American embassy, surrounded the Aristide home, took positions on the wall around the home. And you could see the red tracer pattern crisscrossing, crosshatching in the yard of the home. And into the yard came one Chevy Suburban with one of the Special Forces people fully armed, who was attending Luis Moreno of the American embassy, who walked into the house and told the president, “I was here when you came back in '94, and I'm here tonight to tell you it's time for you to leave.”
They removed the president -- Moreno and the American Special Forces -- from his home, took them to the airport -- the president, Mrs. Aristide and Franz Gabriel -- took them from their home, boarded them on this large wide-bodied aircraft with no markings, no tail number, only the sort of large flag, American flag, on the vertical tail assembly, and flew off, making their first refueling stop in the eastern Caribbean in Antigua.
Friends of ours at the airport in Antigua, airport officials, were not allowed to board the plane, as is the custom for customs purposes. All of the windows were drawn. The plane sat on the tarmac for five hours or so. Secretary Rumsfeld said that when President Aristide was in Antigua, he had met with members of the Caribbean leadership community. President Aristide, as he said on the tapes -- quite right, and this is borne out by witnesses in Antigua -- couldn't have known where he was. He was not allowed to see out of the plane, and no one on the outside was allowed access to anyone who was on the plane.
A
nd as I've published in the book -- I've published copies of the American customs declarations -- and one of the declarations has been altered from fifty present on the plane to no people on the plane by the Americans who submitted the customs declarations to the Antiguan authorities.
And then they flew off to the Ascension Island. And only when they were approaching the Central African Republic were the Aristides told where they were. And after they landed, no American official deplaned, no soldiers, no one else. The Aristides were simply put off the plane, as if they were parcels, along with Franz Gabriel. They weren't even told or treated or given any medication for the sometimes lethal malaria strand that affects the Central African Republic and were kept there in a small room for two weeks until our delegation arrived to try and negotiate their release.
AMY GOODMAN: We'll find out what happened after. This is Randall Robinson. He's just written a book called An Unbroken Agony: Haiti, From Revolution to the Kidnapping of a President. Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: Our guest is Randall Robinson. He has just flown up from St. Kitts in the Caribbean where he has lived for the past six years. He has written a new book. It's called An Unbroken Agony: Haiti, From Revolution to the Kidnapping of a President. Randall Robinson is founder and past president of TransAfrica, also author of The Debt, The Reckoning, and Defending the Spirit. Randall Robinson, you just described that day, February 29, into March 1, as the Aristides were taken by the US military and security from their home in Haiti to the Central African Republic. Why CAR, the Central African Republic?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Any number of Caribbean countries would have welcomed the Aristides, but the United States wanted to get him out of the hemisphere, as far away from Haiti as they possibly could. And they wanted to send him to a country over which either the United States or France had great sway.
The Central African Republic is de facto still a colony of France. And it was under military dictatorship at the time that President Aristide was taken there. And so, when we arrived, we saw cheek-by-jaw to the airport was a French military establishment. It was no common civilian-use airport. There were no planes. It was a very frightening affair. Troops were all about. Obviously, the president was very nervous about threats to his one-year-old military coup. And so, that's how he was sent there, and that's how the country was chosen.
And President Bozize made plain to us that he had done this at the request of the United States. Prime Minister Patterson of Jamaica demonstrated enormous courage in giving to his parliamentarian Sharon Hay-Webster, who went with us, a letter saying that he would welcome to -- providing temporary refuge, asylum to President Aristide in Jamaica. And it was with the presentation of that letter that we were able to prevail, but not before President Bozize had to call France and the United States to seek permission to release the Aristides to us. It was clear that the United States was in control and that President Bozize was doing this at the request of the United States.
AMY GOODMAN: We were reporting back to Pacifica and to Reuters, following these hours of negotiations. As you negotiated with the president, went to the presidential palace, the decision was being made, are the Aristides going to be released. But the US had an unusual situation here. They said that the Aristides had chosen to go there, were free to leave. And yet, here you were negotiating, not with them, but with the dictator for their release.
RANDALL ROBINSON: Oh, it was absolutely clear that they weren't free to go anywhere. And Bozize made that clear. The Aristides had never been to that country before, knew no one in that country and certainly wouldn't have gone to a country that was a virtual colony of France, because France was implicated in the coup with the United States. I think Secretary Powell confesses much of his role in a recent statement that he made. He said on April the 18th, says -- “If there are people who don't want American troops there, should they be there?” was the question. “It depends. They're there because they serve our interest, American troops, and they also hopefully serve the interest of the country. In the case of Haiti, Haiti is an example where we were not invited in, but there was a civil war.” There was no civil war, and the secretary knew that.
AMY GOODMAN: On March 1, 2004, Democracy Now! broke the story, because you, Randall Robinson, and Congressmember Maxine Waters called us right after President Aristide called you, saying he was trapped in the Central African Republic. We broke the story that Aristide was directly accusing the United States of overthrowing him in a coup, kidnapping him and taking him and his wife Mildred by force to the Central African Republic. So that day, after we broadcast your and the Congressmember Maxine Waters's descriptions of that scratchy phone call that the President Aristide had made to you from the CAR, our transcripts went online. Reporters took those transcripts and questioned US officials both at the Pentagon and the White House about Aristide's accusations. Then Secretaries of Defense and State Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell responded.
DONALD RUMSFELD: The idea that someone was abducted is just totally inconsistent with everything I heard or saw or am aware of. So I think that, that -- I do not believe he is saying what you say -- are saying he is saying.
COLIN POWELL: He was not kidnapped. We did not force him onto the airplane. He went onto the airplane willingly. And that's the truth.
AMY GOODMAN: “And thats the truth,” says then-Secretary of State Colin Powell. Your response, Randall Robinson?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, several things. Number one, a cursory investigation would demonstrate the factual accuracy of what I have described here. The Caribbean countries asked for an investigation, and they were told by the United States that were they to press for an investigation at the UN Security Council level, that either France or the United States, or both, would veto such a resolution. And so, the US was prepared to block any investigation into what they had done that night.
Of course, the president didn't go on the plane voluntarily. All of the previous coups that have occurred in Haiti of dictators that were there with the support of the United States, when they were chased out of the country, all of the cameras were there to record that. Then they were taken to nearby places like Panama to live comfortably, the US even renting the house of Cedras in Haiti, taking care of these American client dictators. When Aristide left the country, there was no camera, not one, not one reporter at the airport. And I -- you did what no other American journalist, save Eisner of the Washington Post, was willing to do. The New York Times suggested in their description that President Aristide left Haiti and went to South Africa, never even reported that they were taken to the Central African Republic.
AMY GOODMAN: You also point out in An Unbroken Agony the video clips that the media was showing after Aristide left. I mean, here you had -- they were not at the airport, yet they did show video of President Aristide shaking hands with dignitaries, I think, at the airport.
RANDALL ROBINSON: He was making his way along a long line of government ministers in daytime clips, making his way along a line, leaving the country. And that was represented to the American public to be film of his departure from the country. He left the country at 4:00 a.m., boarding a plane at the airport with absolutely nobody there.
AMY GOODMAN: Randall Robinson, I interviewed Colin Powell's former chief of staff, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, on Haiti, about Haiti, November 2005. He defended the US role in the removal of President Aristide from power.
AMY GOODMAN: He said it was the US that pressed him to leave, that pushed him out, that put him onto this plane with US military and security. He had no idea where he was going until he was dumped in the Central African Republic.
COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON: I can't imagine a man like Aristide, whose will to power is excessive, even obsessive, saying anything differently. Colin Powell, as you said, did know the situation in Haiti, probably as well as anyone in America. Colin Powell made the decision based on our ambassador in Haiti's very clear presentation of the circumstances, and the President made the decision ultimately, and it was a good decision, and I would stand by that decision.
Haiti is a situation that picks at all our hearts all the time. Haiti is right next to being a failed state. And because of its proximity to the United States, we know what that failure means. And Haiti is not apparently capable of coming out of that situation. It's a situation that, as I said, drags at all our hearts, but in this particular instance, I think a good decision was made, a decision that prevented further bloodshed that would have been widespread had it not been made.
AMY GOODMAN: Why say that the president, Aristide, had an obsession with power? This was a man who was the democratically elected president of Haiti, certainly got a higher percentage of the vote than President Bush got in this country.
COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON: Please, don't refer to the percentage of vote as equatable to democracy, as equatable to the kinds of institutions we have reflecting democracy in America. Hitler was elected by popular vote.
AMY GOODMAN: I spoke to the head of the Steele Foundation. That was the American foundation that provided the security for the people around President Aristide, who was not allowed to send in reinforcements. Again, since we're talking about such a small group of people who are moving in on the capital, the Steele Foundation felt he could be secured, but the US government stopped Aristide's own security from being able to come in.
COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON: Aristide felt like he couldn't be secured. That's the only -- I was privy to the cables that came in from our ambassador. I was privy to some of the information that the secretary let me know about what was happening down there in terms of telephone calls and so forth. Aristide made the decision deep into the night that his life was in danger and that the bloodshed that would occur would probably fall at his feet, and so Aristide made a mutual decision with our ambassador to leave the country.
AMY GOODMAN: Why would --
COL. LAWRENCE WILKERSON: Despite what he says now, that's what the record reflects.
AMY GOODMAN: Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, the former chief of staff of the former secretary of state, Colin Powell. Randall Robinson?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, here are the facts. No one disputes that the United States provided weapons, uniforms, steel pots, recoil-less rifles, rocket-powered grenades, all of that, to some 200 paramilitary forces that were trained in the Dominican Republic. The US armed and trained them. No one disputes that they crossed the border, went north, away from the capital, and stopped at Gonaive, at least a hundred kilometers north of Port-au-Prince, which was where they were spotted, verifiably, on the evening of the 28th and the morning of the 29th. They never came near Port-au-Prince. No one in Haiti would dispute that they ever posed a threat to the government. No 200 armed men could overrun a city of a million people that were hostile to them and supportive of the president.
The president won two elections, the last with 90% of the vote. If he were in Haiti today and he ran again, he would win overwhelmingly again. The United States provided money through the International Republican Institute to form a false opposition to Aristide in the country. The rich and the elites, who were threatened because he raised the minimum wage from $1 to $2 a day, threatened because he had proposed to banish the use of the word “peasants” on the birth certificate of poor black Haitians, threatened by a man who was loved by his people because he wanted to protect the interests of the poorest among them. And the United States overthrew that democracy. And it is so simply provable. The smallest investigation would prove what the United States has done in this case.

AMY GOODMAN: We're talking to Randall Robinson on An Unbroken Agony: Haiti, From Revolution to the Kidnapping of a President. When we come back, we'll talk about what the US continues to do in Haiti. We'll also talk about France's role. And we'll talk about Randall Robinson not living anymore in this country, as he put it in a previous book, “quitting America.” Stay with us.
[break]
AMY GOODMAN: Our guest for the hour, Randall Robinson, just up from St. Kitts, where he has been living for the last six years. He has just published a new book called An Unbroken Agony: Haiti, From Revolution to the Kidnapping of a President.
Let's talk history for a minute, something the US press doesn't give us very much of. To understand the US role today in Haiti, can you go back in time to how Haiti was founded in 1804?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, Haiti was the largest piece of France's global empire. It was its great profit center, that slave colony with 465,000 enslaved Africans working there, many of whom had been soldiers in African armies before they were brought to Haiti. And in August of 1789 -- or 1791, rather, 40,000 of those slaves revolted and started a war that lasted twelve-and-a-half years under the leadership of an ex-slave and a military genius named Toussaint L'Ouverture and Jean-Jacques Dessalines. And this army of ex-slaves defeated two French armies, first the French army before the completion of their revolution and then another army dispatched by Napoleon under the leadership of his brother-in-law, and then the armies of England and Spain. 150,000 blacks died in that twelve-and-a-half-year war. And in January of 19 -- 1804, rather, they declared Haiti the first free republic in the Americas, because the United States was then a country that held slaves.
During the revolution, Thomas Jefferson said he would like to reduce Toussaint to starvation. George Washington lamented and vilified that revolution. The US imposed an embargo, recognized a new French government, but did not recognize the new Haitian free government and imposed a comprehensive economic embargo on Haiti until the Emancipation Proclamation. In fact, France imposed reparations on Haiti in 1825, and the interest that Haiti had to pay in loans that were American and French loans to service this debt to France, absorbed virtually 80% of Haiti's available budget 111 years after the completion of their revolution until 1915. It was only in 1947 that Haiti was able to pay off its debt.
AMY GOODMAN: The debt that was incurred as a result of France not having access to the enslaved people of Haiti.
RANDALL ROBINSON: The Haitians had to pay France for no longer having the privilege of owning Haitian slaves. That revolution provoked the end of slavery in the Americas. And so, that's why it is so important that all African people, people generally in the Americas, because Haiti funded and fought in South American revolutions. That's why Haiti is so honored in places like Venezuela by people like Simon Bolivar. Haiti was central to all of this. And we're in Haiti's debt. But it is for that --
AMY GOODMAN: Simon Bolivar came to Haiti.
RANDALL ROBINSON: Haiti, and was given arms and was given men, was given a printing press, because the Haitians believed that anybody who was enslaved anywhere had a home and a refuge in Haiti. Anybody seeking freedom had a sympathetic ear in Haiti. But because of that, the United States and France and the other Western governments, even the Vatican, made them pay for so terribly long. It's as if the anger of it never abated. I mean, you can hear Frederick Douglass talking about it in the late 1800s, about this thing in the American craw.
AMY GOODMAN: The US government didn't recognize Haiti for decades, the Congress, going back to Thomas Jefferson, afraid that the slave uprising would inspire US slaves.
RANDALL ROBINSON: Would inspire US slaves to revolt against him in Virginia, and George Washington, and on and on and on. And so, they opposed everything that was being done in Haiti that won their freedom.
AMY GOODMAN: The US government invaded Haiti in 1915 under Wilson.
RANDALL ROBINSON: Woodrow Wilson invaded Haiti in 1915. And when a Haitian, Peralte, Charlemagne Peralte, organized the Cacos soldiers, these farmers, to fight against this American occupation, the Americans killed him and nailed him to a cross, crucifixion-style, and stood him up, his corpse, in a public place in Haiti to demonstrate to Haitians what would be the price of any defense against the American invasion. The US has played a terrible role in Haiti.
AMY GOODMAN: So even as the US and France were at loggerheads after the US invasion of Iraq, because France opposed the invasion -- that was 2003 -- in 2004, they were working together --
RANDALL ROBINSON: Working very much together.
AMY GOODMAN: -- in pushing out, forcing out Aristide and bringing him to the Central African Republic.
RANDALL ROBINSON: As a matter of fact, in 2003, late 2003, Aristide organized a reparations conference, and the result of which was a request to France that it repair Haiti by repaying Haiti the $21 billion in current money that Haiti had paid in reparations unjustly to France. Dominique de Villepin responded by sending his sister.
AMY GOODMAN: The foreign minister of France.
RANDALL ROBINSON: The foreign minister of France sending his sister to Haiti to tell Aristide that it was time for him to leave. And that's how we have -- the Western world, France and particularly the United States -- have meddled in Haitian affairs. After the abduction of the president, Bush spoke with Chirac on the phone, congratulating each other about how smoothly the abduction of the president had been carried off by both countries.
AMY GOODMAN: We're talking to Randall Robinson. Let's talk about today. Rene Preval was elected president after the US installed the Gerard Latortue after Aristide was forced out. What about today in Haiti? We see this protest of thousands last week on Aristide's fifty-fourth birthday, calling for the exiled president to return. He's in South Africa. What's happening today?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, many of the people who were trained by the United States to pretend over the president are still very much in place. They have not been apprehended. The business class that contributed money to the rebels, to the first coup they contributed money to people who would shoot into any crowd of demonstrators. This time around, they contributed money, we're now hearing from Guy Philippe, to him, to do what he did. And so, you have this collaboration between white, mulatto, wealthy elites in Haiti with the United States and Western Europe to repress the large black majority. That continues. Some 4,000 people have been killed by the international forces in Haiti since then. The supreme court has been replaced, in large part, by the interim government that was installed by the United States. So Preval's government has no control over the judiciary. We don't have an authentic democracy.
AMY GOODMAN: Randall, you talked about how when President Aristide was president, before he was forced out, he was supposed to be getting hundreds of millions of dollars from the Inter-American Development Bank, I think it was, for health issues.
RANDALL ROBINSON: The loan had been fully approved. It was for $146 million. It was for health issues, for literacy, for things associated with social programs, roads and some infrastructure projects. The United States blocked that loan. And so, on the one hand, it starved the economy of Haiti. On the other hand, it trained the opposition. On another hand, it armed the paramilitaries. And in the last analysis, American forces invaded and abducted the president.
AMY GOODMAN: Today, apparently last week, there was an attempt to arrest Guy Philippe, Guy Philippe, who was the US-supported -- in fact, you said in your book that he was trained in Ecuador.
RANDALL ROBINSON: He was, plucked by the CIA for special training by the United States when he was a police captain in the Del Mar district of Port-au-Prince.
AMY GOODMAN: So one of the coup leaders, along with Jodel Chamblain, the number two man in FRAP --
RANDALL ROBINSON: One of the coup leaders.
AMY GOODMAN: -- paramilitary death squad.
RANDALL ROBINSON: -- is now running from the DEA, apparently. He says, through his deputy, that that's the case, because he is prepared to use information about how the elites in Haiti gave him money to destabilize the government.
AMY GOODMAN: But he wasn't arrested, Guy Philippe.
RANDALL ROBINSON: No, he hasn't been arrested yet, so far as we know.
AMY GOODMAN: They didn't get him.
RANDALL ROBINSON: No.
AMY GOODMAN: The US role, how well known is it in Haiti by Haitians?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Oh, I think it's very well known in Haiti by Haitians. If it were so well known by Americans, our democracy would work better. The problem is with our democracy. It wasn't ever with theirs. The problem is what our undemocratic or the behavior, undemocratic behavior, of our government means for struggling democracies across the world. We feel that we, by divine right, can go in and overthrow governments willy-nilly, when they are living under leadership of their own clear choice. It's a shameful chapter for Americans and particularly for this administration.
AMY GOODMAN: Randall Robinson, you “quit” America, as you put it, wrote the book Quitting America. You live in St. Kitts right now in the Caribbean. What is it like to look at the United States from that perspective? You lived here for years, headed TransAfrica for a quarter of a century, spearheaded the movement to stop the support of Apartheid South Africa. You fasted almost to death, twenty-seven days, to protest President Clinton's handling of the Haitian refugees in the first coup against Aristide.
RANDALL ROBINSON: I can give you an illustrative example. When Vieques was in the news and the American use of that area as a bombing range, and the people then becoming very upset because of high cancer rates and that sort of thing, a member of the American Congress spoke to the prime minister of St. Kitts about -- with a straight face -- about the possibility of using -- the Americans making use -- of the island nation of St. Kitts as a bombing range. This is the thing -- one of the kinds of things that we do, and how we see the rest of the world. And I think it, in large part, is why we have come to be as a nation loathed so much. And so, when Americans look at themselves, they see an America that is very different from what the rest of the world gets to see.
AMY GOODMAN: Will you be returning to the United States to live?
RANDALL ROBINSON: I don't think so.
AMY GOODMAN: Why not?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, I love St. Kitts. I wanted to live -- I'm sixty-six years old. I wanted to live some of my life out from under the weight of racism, the weight of a sort of cauterized public empathy, or the lack thereof. I'm not sure anymore that entire cultures cannot be sociopathic, where they refuse to see what they do to other people in other places. It wore me out. I wanted to see a different place, and we wanted our daughter to have her adolescence and her high school in a different place. And it is the country of my wife, and so we are quite at home. It is a small, intimate, wonderful democracy and very pretty to look at.
AMY GOODMAN: Randall Robinson, I want to thank you very much for joining us today. Randall Robinson is the founder and former president of TransAfrica, moved to St. Kitts in the Caribbean six years ago, has written a number of books, including The Debt, The Reckoning, Quitting America, Defending the Spirit. His latest is An Unbroken Agony: Haiti, From Revolution to the Kidnapping of a President.

Leoneljb
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:29 pm

Post by Leoneljb » Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:36 am

Michel, mwen oun tijan konfi. Paske m'ap swiv entEvi Robinson. Then, mwen wE oun pakEt lOt moun...
Antouka, mwen pwal tounen sou rEs entEviou'a. Paske, se konkou oun bouyon mimi. Li gen anpil melanj.
Leonel

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Aristide pakap tounin kounyen la, paske pakab gen 2 presidan nan peyi a

Post by Michel Nau » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:22 am

Leonel,

Mwen byen kontan ke w intere nan deroulman evenman yo.
Nou gen impresyon ke yo tout konekte yon ak lot kankou yon chenn.

pou zafe Guy philippe la. Robinson di ke se pa Guy ki jete Aristide. Guy pap nan zonn Poto prins ditou. Se ki se vre. Se diplomat etranje yo ki monte kou deta sa e konplisite e naivte Aristide ki te fe mesye sa yo trop konfyans.

Robinson gen yon liv pou li vand donk lap fe piblisite pou liv li a. Min nou menm ayisyen, pa gen anyen nan liv sa ke nou pa konnen deja.

Presyon ap fet sou gouvenman Preval la toujou pou li fe Aristide tounin. Min, sa pa nan ajanda gouvenman sa kounyen la.
Sa kap yon distraksyon pou vision ekonomik e sosyal ke Preval gen kounyen la.

Paske gen anpil bagay ke Preval ap fe la ke si Aristide te nan peyi a, li tap proteste. Pa egsanp revokasyon e lisansman employe leta yo e privatizasyon byen leta yo.

Mesi Leonel deske w interese ak sak kap pase nan peyi w e la vi pep ayisyen. Anpil lot moun pa fe politik anko paske Aristide pa la. Yo pa interese a anyen anko. Nou gen impresyon ke moun sa yo te indoktrine e programe e fok yo reabilite e deprograme pou yo sa vinn menen yon vi normal.
imbesil toujou di ke it's my way or no way!!
Nan tan globalizasyon ke nap vinn kounyen la, fok tout pep chita pale avek yon ak lot.

Kenbe la pa laguè

Michel

Tidodo
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:07 am

Post by Tidodo » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:54 am

Michel, like Leonel, I don't see what is so objectionable about what Robinson's account of haitian history that deserves our rebuke. The historic recounts before the administration of Aristide are as close to as any native haitian learned at school or through history books. In fact, from this interview, we seem to benefit by getting an american perspective, given by an american, who is sympathetic to the haitian side of these historical facts.Though, this is not news to most people on this forum.

The foreign press and historians have routinely written haitian history from their own perspective and interest only. I found it difficult to include Robinson's account listed above among them. Certainly, Robinson's summary above reflects the perspective of someone who is sympathetic to the Aristide administration. I am sure, another haitian or foreigner writing a similar book would put the emphasis on events that show less sympathy for former President Aristide or his administration, depending on where they stand on him. From there to accuse Robinson of haitian history basher - my choice of words - is stretching it a bit. The majority of haitians would agree with Robinson's perspective on the events that led to the ouster of President Aristide. If a majotiry would agree, I can't see how it becomes a foreigner's view only?

By the way, are you insinuating that Robinson, perhaps through his wife, is being paid for writing this book? Since the facts that are reported in it are well knwon, can we just judge the books on the accuracy of the facts reported in it instead of trying to smear it on the basis of the well known fact that Robinson is sympathetic to the former prersident's position?

Bouli

Post by Bouli » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:44 pm

[quote]Robinson gen yon liv pou li vand donk lap fe piblisite pou liv li a. Min nou menm ayisyen, pa gen anyen nan liv sa ke nou pa konnen deja.
[/quote]
Mwen dakò Robinson ap fè piblisite pou liv la vann men sanble se pa zafè komès sèlman ki enterese otè an. Tankou misiye te reponn manzè Goodman, Ayisyen okoran tout mannigèt malfini an Ayiti; si Meriken te konnen kijan gouvènman yo an ap terorizé lòt nasyon sou latè, Meriken yo t'ap gentan fè Etazini tounen you demokrasi toutbon. Se plis you kanpay edikasyon Robinson ap fè lè li pibliye liv sa yo. Misye konnen sistèm edikasyon peyi li an pa gen senkòb enterè pou rakonte istwa you gwoup moun nwa ki te sòti anba esklvaj miltinasyonal ki fòme you nasyon kote tout moun viv lib. Senbòl libète sa sanble pi gwo pase gwo estati ki sou ti zile Manhattan lan. Sitou jan Robinson ekspoze pozisyon istorik peyi lan ki toujou ap bare chimen devlopman peyi sa-a ki se Ayiti. Mwen kwè edikasyon sa-a bon pou ni pou Meriken ni pou Ayisyen. Sitou sila ki santi yo pral viv pi alèz lè planèt la tounen you sèl plantasyon.

Robinson pa janm gen pwoblèm deklare madanm li te travay pou Aristide. Kilès ki vle admèt yo te travay ak liberatè Guy Philipe, Chamblain elatriye? Kilès moun ki te pran chans fè grèv de fen pou Ayiti lè machann dwòg CIA yo t'ap simen bal sou pèp Ayisyen. Se youn nan politisyen Meriken ki pa-t vale manti frè politisyen parèy li yo devan kanpay manti ki te paralize politisyen Washington. Jodi an kilès ki pral pran pawòl Powell, Moreno, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, Rice, Cheney, Bush...oserye? Pawòl moun tankou Robinson, Dany Glover (gen kèk lòt ankò) ki pase enterè pèsonèl yo dèyè pou defann lavi malere se pawòl konsekan. Se pa nenpòt moun ki ka pran chans ofri moun konsa antrevi si yo vle kenbe djòb yo.

Sa-k ta di nan ane 2007 nan Etazini, se ta you gwo zafè pou tande de moun lib ap pale nan radio ak televizyon.

Leoneljb
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:29 pm

Kidnapping of a President?

Post by Leoneljb » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:50 pm

Michel, I don't agree that Haitian's story can only be told by Haitians. From your perspectives only a Native had the sense to see or give their opinion concerning their Country.
By the way, I can be bias. For, I always liked Robinson. I think He did tremendously very good Deeds for the oppressed. Personally, I always like people the other side does not approve of. What have they done for us lately?
Why is it that there is one Country always present following any Coup d'Etat?
By the way, I also Believe that Aristide has the Right to live in Haiti. For the Coup d'Etat was illegal! How could that make his exile legal?
Haiti is for us Haitians to decide, not others. They can help but not politically.
We've been suffering for Centuries. Not because we're so bad. But, for, the involvement of Foreign Forces in our affairs.
I've said it before. I don't think that Aristide was a Good President. But, he was elected democratically. Therefore, He has the right to come back and live in his native Country. Is that too much to ask? Or is it a fair question?
L'Union fait la Force

Leonel

Serge
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:39 am

Post by Serge » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:08 pm

Kanmarad,
Se koulye a sèlman mwen te gen yon ti tan li mesaj sa yo.

Mwen menm tou mwen te tande Amy Goodman e se yon entèvyou ki enteresan anpil. Michel, ou ka panse ke Ayisyen konen tou sa ki nan liv la deja, men la ou nan lerè, zanmi. Mwen menm, ou menm ak kèk lòt moun ka konen, men gen yon seri detay enpòtan anpil ke gwo piblik la pat konen. Pa egzanp, lè yo mete Aristide nan avyon an, avyon ateri Antiga, tout fènèt fèmen; Otorite Antiga pa jenm konen kilès ki te nan avyon an. e poutan, Kidnapè meriken yo fè konen Aristide te pale ak Lidè KARIKOM yo. Se te pwopagan nan sa pou fè konpran yout moun te ladan nan chase Aristide la. Kididonk, se yon dokiman enpòtan e istorik tout ayisyen ta fèt pou li. Se pa tankou jan w di a, yon nèg kap fè pwopagan pou liv li van. Nou tout konen gen anpil lòt sijè Randal Robinson te ka ekri sou yo. Li chwazi sijè sa paske te gen yon vid enfòmasyon sou chapit sa nan listwa nou e li plase poul konen, kididonk, lap fè moun konen sa ki te pase, ak anpil dokiman otantik.

Kanta pou tounen, mwen sipoze ou dwe konen Aristide paka Prezidan ankò, paske Konstitisyon an pa bal dwa sa. Men menm Konstitisyon sa bal dwa kom sitwayen aysisyen, pou li tounen nan peyi li, e rezon ki fè li panko tounen , se pou rezon politik li pa gen kontwò sou yo. Legalman, pa gen ANYEN ki ka anpeche li tounen. Se menm jan tou Cedras , Bianby gen dwa tounen nan peyi a tou, paske se ayisyen yo ye. Jean-Claude Divalye, se yon lòt koze paske se sitwayen franse li ye. Fòk li gen viza.

Kididonk, zafè wap pale, komsi pa ka gen 2 prezidan nan peyi pa fè oken sans. Menm lè opozisyon enkonpetan, ridikil la te parèt ak panten yo a kom "prezidan", se toujou yon sèl prezidan ki te ekziste nan peyi. ale wè pou koulye a.

Lè nap pale koze sa yo, an nou kenbe tèt nou frèt, pou nou kapab fè analyz ki chite sou zak veridik, legal, sou objektivite. Mwen kwè se sa R. robinson fè la ak liv li a. Zafè madanm li ki tap fè "lobby" pou Aristide pa gen anyen pou wè nan koze liv la. Nan sans sa, mwen dakò nèt ak sa Ti Dodo di a. Li pa fasil pou yon nèg tankou R. Robinson ki te pre Aristide, ekri yon liv konsa kap bay listwa a ak objektivite. Se pa tankou William Kristol kap ekri yon atik pou di ke Bush ap genyen lagè nan Irak, pandan chak jou yap pete fyèl solda meriken , lajan ap gaspiye, lagè sivil ap fè mikalaw, tou sa, paske li pa gen kouray pou di laverite!

Serge


Serge

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Post by Michel Nau » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:45 pm

TiDodo said: [quote]Since the facts that are reported in it are well knwon, can we just judge the books on the accuracy of the facts reported in it instead of trying to smear it on the basis of the well known fact that Robinson is sympathetic to the former prersident's position?[/quote] I don't think that Randall Robinson knew the facts and how the whole episode of Aristide's departure went through.
When we are doing intelligence analysis, some of us may put all the facts together, and get different results.
All the facts are there, the elite, rebels, FRAPH, Meteyer, the economy, diplomats, French, US, Canadians, Aristide himself as the core of the recipe.
Depend to who you talk to, you may have a different answer and outcome, kidnapping or coup d'etat, voluntary departure, resignation, assassination etc..

Just like you may put in a casserole all the ingredients, carrots, potato, beef, salt, seasoning etc and put it on the stove.
Depend on who is doing the cooking, and how high the fire is; the outcome may turn out to be a soup, a bouillon, or a stew.
Aristide and his sympathizers say that it's a kidnapping/coup d'etat.
The international community (U.S., France, Canada) say that it's a resignation, or voluntary departure.

I say that the truth lies between these two analyses. Peson pa konnen ki sak pase, menm Randall Robinson.
Sa yon di ki facts TiDodo se devinet!!
Leonel said: [quote]I've said it before. I don't think that Aristide was a Good President. But, he was elected democratically. Therefore, He has the right to come back and live in his native Country. Is that too much to ask? Or is it a fair question[/quote]?
Serge di ke: [quote]Kididonk, zafè wap pale, komsi pa ka gen 2 prezidan nan peyi pa fè oken sans. Menm lè opozisyon enkonpetan, ridikil la te parèt ak panten yo a kom "prezidan", se toujou yon sèl prezidan ki te ekziste nan peyi. ale wè pou koulye a.[/quote] Leonel, Bouli, ak Serge two intelijan pou yo ap pran poz ke yo pa konprand kan mwen di ke presans Aristide( pa kom prezidan non, men kom simp sitwayen) ka kontwawye, e kweye yon indikap pou gouvennans Preval/Alexis a.

Majorité presidan Dayiti nou yo swa yo asasine yo, swa yo pran exil.
Paske sak monte kom presidans pa jamb dako avek sa ki pedi a. E vise vesa. Gen 2 e 3 exsepsyon, Estime, e Preval, e Aristide.

My opinion is that the presence of Aristide in Haiti, even as a ordinary citizen and his charisma, could jeopardy Preval/Alexis agenda in privatization, state employee downsizing, drug prevention, corruption etc..

Nevertheless, his return is his prerogative.
Mwen kwe ke nou kle sou koze sa.

Randall Robinson's book came out in June 2007, at a retail price of $26.00 on amazom.com. Less than a month later the price dropped to $14.00. I already placed an order.

TiDodo, Bouli, Leonel, Serge e lot kamarad ki pare pou bay opinion yo sou sije sa, mwen pa gen anyen kont Randall Robinson e madam li Hazel.
Serge di ke:[quote] Li chwazi sijè sa paske te gen yon vid enfòmasyon sou chapit sa nan listwa nou e li plase poul konen, kididonk, lap fè moun konen sa ki te pase, ak anpil dokiman otantik. [/quote]Serge!! Pleassssssse!!!!
Zafe ke moun ap di ke se facts ke misye pote nan liv li ya e ke li plase poul konen sak te pase ak anpil dokiman otantik, map di ke se pa vre.
Se pawol nan bouch lot moun ki pat menm la le eveman yo tap deroule. Mesye pale de Frantz Gabriel kom ayisyen ki te la tap bali tout zin yo. Menm Gabriel pat viv tout eveman yo, Li pa okouran de dialog, kout telefonn, etc ki tap fet ant Aristide e Neptune, Moreno e elatrye.

Se opinyon li ke misye bay dapre dyab ke li sevi e pou fe plezi!!
Menm jan ke Noriega, Moreno, Powell, gen opinyon pa yo dapre dyab ke wap sevi e pou fe plezi.
Sel Aristide ak madam li e res mesye yo ki konen verite a.
Menm malarezman, yo pap jamb di nou tout bon vre kijan bagay yo te pase.
Gen lot liv ki pou soti anko.
Kidonk menm jan ak ti moun kap domi devan bookstore kap rete tand liv Harry Potter, mwen menm tou map rale ti chyez ba mwen, map rete tand liv sou evenman Fevrye 2004 la soti.
I can't wait!!!

Michel

Leoneljb
Posts: 222
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:29 pm

Post by Leoneljb » Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:35 pm

Michel, mwen sa ou di'a. men sepandan, mwen konnen ke nou pa tibebe nan kouchEt. Ni nou pa je pete klere nonpli.
Anvan ke Aristide te ale. Li te deklare ke li pap kite pouvwa'a. Knowing Aristide, he wouldn't leave the Capital while he knew all his forces were in Port-au-Prince.
Poukisa ke Meriken'w kwE ladan yo'a, pa't negosye ak rebEl yo pandan ke Aristide te aksepte konpwomi?
Nou pa analfabEt je pete klere. Nou konnen ke se pa premye fwa ke Meriken ap anlve chEf deta oudimwen manniganse kou deta.
Kounye'a w'ap pale de manje depann de moun ki fE'l. Mwen di ke ou manti. Gen oun mach a swiv. Manje se Chimi li ye. Se oun Syans ke li ye. Si oun pa swiv SOP'a(Standard Operating Procedure) kOm sa dwa. Manje'w la kapab pa gen menm gou ak oun lOt. Depli, analoji'a pa fE sans ditou.
An nou rete sou fE yo. Pa eseye bay analoji ti Papa. Oudimwen, bay oun bagay ki pi sanblab opwen de vi istorik, pa syantifik.
KOm mwen di'w deja, Robinson pa oun moso moun non. Misye pwouve time and time again ki moun li ye. Si se pasa, li ta fE oun pakEt kOb nan Washington nan administrasyon deblozay... Believe me, si oun moun vle fE kOb nan Washington anba magouyE aktyEl sa yo, yo ka fEl byen fasil e Mesye sa yo konn kijan pou yo fEl menm jan ak Stanley Lucas et al.
Robinson ak oun paket lOt moun ki pa vle vomisman djOl bouch yo, se zandolit ki pa reve met kostim Mabouya!
Kidonk mon frE, fE analiz ou byen. Pa voye monte konsa. Sispann al nan won san baton. Pa kite moun ap voye'w anlE san yo pa atrap ou. Ayiti, pou tout Ayisyen.
L'union fait la Force
Leonel

Serge
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:39 am

Post by Serge » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:46 pm

Map salye nou kanmarad.

Mwen pap long ditou sou koze sa. Michel, agiman w yo pa chita. Nan yon pakèt peyi nan lemond, prezidan an la, epi gen lòt nèg nan peyi ki gen plis "charisma" pase li e poutan yo tout viv nan menm peyi a. Poukisa lè se Ayiti, ou vle pou prensip sa pa valab. POu mwen, agiman w lan pa valab. Se pou rezon politik ki fè Aristid deyò lakay li. SI pat gen koudeta, li tap fini manda li epi li chita lakay li. Si Cedras pat fè koudeta, li tap pran retrè li lè lè a rive epi oi chita lakay li. Li lè pou konpran se lapratik ki konsolide enstitisyon. SI opzisyon enkonpetan an te kite Aristide fini manda li (paske te rete sèlman 18 mwa), nou ta pwal gen lòt eleksyon e sa ta fè 4 tranzisyon demokratik. Se konsa ou konsolide prensip tranzisyon demokratik nan yon peyi, se pa ak koudeta yo fè sa. Toutotan klas politik enkonpetan nou an pa konpran sa, peyi nou an fèk kare pran kalòt.

Se pousa mwen repete liv Randal Robinson lan vin pote limyè so yon seri de detay anpil moun nan lari a pat konen. Ou mèt chache minimize liv la. se pa sa kap retire valè li. (OU di pri liv tonbe nan $14 dola. Mwen achte kopi pa mwen ayè 23 jiyè a pou 26$. Menm si pri a ta tonbe, ki pwoblèm? OU byen konen systèm isit se konsa sa fonksyone? Sale! Sale! Liv Harry Potter ap van pou 17.88 pa bò isit. Alò, banm van pou mal Lagonav!)

Nan liv li a, Randal Robinson te predi gen yon lè kap rive, Guy Philippe pwal vin yon lawont pou Meriken. Gade sa kap pase koulye ak Misye.

Map redi li: tout Ayisyen, pou Aristide ou kont Aristide, fèt pou li liv sa, paske li montre kouman yon ekip Ayisyen ki pa wè pi lwen ke bout nen, fouye Ayiti pi fon nan twou a. Nap peye chè pou sa koulye, pandan ke yo menm yap kontinye byen menen, menm jan ak anvan.....


Serge

Tidodo
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:07 am

Post by Tidodo » Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:44 am

[quote]Depend to who you talk to, you may have a different answer and outcome, kidnapping or coup d'etat, voluntary departure, resignation, assassination etc..Aristide and his sympathizers say that it's a kidnapping/coup d'etat. The international community (U.S., France, Canada) say that it's a resignation, or voluntary departure.
[/quote]

We all know the Bush administration has no credibility, based on, least of which, the lies about the existence of the WMD in Irak they created to make the case for their doomed occupation. If, like you claimed, there are large numbers of people in Haiti who continue to believe that Aristide was not pressured into leaving the country, the Haitian psyche is in worst shape than I thought!


[quote]I say that the truth lies between these two analyses. Peson pa konnen ki sak pase, menm Randall Robinson.
Sa yon di ki facts TiDodo se devinet!! [/quote]

The fact is Aristide said he was kidnapped and Robinson is repeating after him. This is not a "devinet." You want to call Aristide a "liar" or that he has lied about the facts of his forced exile or that he has not told all the facts about it, that is your choice. We are not guessing anything here. There may be some minute details that both sides are not disclosing. Their disclosures would not change what is widely believed by objective observers after hearing Aristide and the international community arguments about his will to leave the country. It is disappointning, that as educated citizens of a country, we are still debating whether Aristide was forced to leave the country or not. How are we going to solve the country's real issues of famine, under-development, erosion of natural resources, overpopulation, brain drain, etc., if his educated people cannot even agree on almost undisputable facts?

[quote]Leonel, Bouli, ak Serge two intelijan pou yo ap pran poz ke yo pa konprand kan mwen di ke presans Aristide( pa kom prezidan non, men kom simp sitwayen) ka kontwawye, e kweye yon indikap pou gouvennans Preval/Alexis a.

My opinion is that the presence of Aristide in Haiti, even as a ordinary citizen and his charisma, could jeopardy Preval/Alexis agenda in privatization, state employee downsizing, drug prevention, corruption etc.. Nevertheless, his return is his prerogative. [/quote]

My opinion here is closer to Michel's than Leonel and Serge. First of all, if I have to advise President Aristide, I would tell him to stay away to avoid criminal prosecution upon his return since 1) the justice system does not work well in Haiti 2) and even he is innocent of whatever charges they have against him, he may not be able to defend himself adequately 3) based on President Aristide's behind the scene manipulations during Preval I, it is unlikely that he would not try to influence policies nor to act as a shadow president again if he was back into the country. That would not be in the best interests of democracy in Haiti, the same way that an international coup d'etat against him did not serve the best interests of democracy in Haiti.

Like Leonel and Serge believed, President Aristide should be free to return to Haiti whenever he wants. Those who don't like him would also be free to try bring him to justice, if they don't use their old anti-democratic means to get their revenge. Unfortunately, a large number of people in Haiti do not believe in democracy, except when it can be used for their personal interests.

Bouli

Post by Bouli » Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:10 pm

Michel,

Jan ou di[quote]...Min nou menm ayisyen, pa gen anyen nan liv sa ke nou pa konnen deja.[/quote]Menmjan anpil Ayisyen kwE labib se pawOl Bondye san yo pa li-l.

Sanble ou pi fO pase you bon divino. DayE ou deja konnen[quote]Sel Aristide ak madam li e res mesye yo ki konen verite a. Menm malarezman, yo pap jamb di nou tout bon vre kijan bagay yo te pase.[/quote]DayE ou deja profetize[quote]Gen lot liv ki pou soti anko.[/quote]
MenmSi nou pa entElijan vre, ifo nou ta mande-w, dekiprevyen w'ap tann lOt liv sa yo lE ou deja konnen otE yo pral bay opinyon yo daprE dyab yo sEvi, epi pyEs verite pa-p sOti.

DaprE antrevi an, sanble otE an kouvri revolisyon esklav yo sou zile an jouk dEnye zak kidnapin 28 Fevriye 2004 lan. Pou demontre depi kilE pEp Ayisyen te kreye you nasyon lib e endepandan. kijan Ayisyen te pataje libEte sa-a ak lOT nasyon nan kontinan. Kijan pEp Ayisyen kontinye ap goumen pou viv lib. Kijan gen lOt nasyon ki vle pote kouwOn libEte sou tEt yo pandan se yo k'ap anchennen libEte....

Si istwaryen se moun ki pase tout vi yo ap konpile dokiman, bouske pawOl nan bouch zOt, kijan pou youn di li konnen tout sa ki vre ak sa ki pa vre nan devinEt.

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Post by Michel Nau » Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:42 pm

TiDodo said:[quote] It is disappointing, that as educated citizens of a country, we are still debating whether Aristide was forced to leave the country or not.[/quote] Your concern is the same as everybody else:
Did he jump?
Who knows, he may have requested personal assistance from the diplomatic body to take a quick and temporary exit with the intend to return home when the situation is appeasing, and unfortunately, things turned out unexpectedly different.
Or was he pushed??
The majority of the public opinion believes that he was pushed. But again this is based on speculation, and past experiences and stereotypes of superpower's behavior to get rid of undesirable leaders against their wills.
Serge di: [quote]Se pousa mwen repete liv Randal Robinson lan vin pote limyè so yon seri de detay anpil moun nan lari a pat konen.[/quote] Wi, liv Robinson nan dekri manniguans e konplosite tout yon seri de sekte ki te vinn arrive a yon bi fix, kite voye Aristide ale.
Ki pousantaj roll chak sekte sa yo jwe? 50%, 40%, 10 % ??
Dapre anpil moun intelektyel kankou Serge, Robinson e lot kamarad activist yo kwe ke ameriken jwe yon roll a 100%. Paske yo gen bon do pou pote chaj.

Kidonk, se yon zanmitaj ki kase fache ant Aristide/Ameriken e ki vinn tounin yon let kaye e se sa ke Robinson pa di nan liv li a jan poul di l la. Zanmitaj la te egziste deja!!
Serge di : [quote]Se pou rezon politik ki fè Aristid deyò lakay li. SI pat gen koudeta, li tap fini manda li epi li chita lakay li. Si Cedras pat fè koudeta, li tap pran retrè li lè lè a rive epi oi chita lakay li. Li lè pou konpran se lapratik ki konsolide enstitisyon. SI opzisyon enkonpetan an te kite Aristide fini manda li (paske te rete sèlman 18 mwa), nou ta pwal gen lòt eleksyon e sa ta fè 4 tranzisyon demokratik. Se konsa ou konsolide prensip tranzisyon demokratik nan yon peyi, se pa ak koudeta yo fè sa. Toutotan klas politik enkonpetan nou an pa konpran sa, peyi nou an fèk kare pran chalet.[/quote] Serge, tout bel pawol sa yo, koudeta, konsolide enstitisyon, transisyon demokratik etc.. se le wap bay yon expoze a etidyan college nan yon klass democracy 101. ou byen wap bay la press local e etranje yon debriefing sou evenman kap pase an Ayiti yo.

Ale anba la vil la e mande ti machand sa chak mo ke yon di la e ke mwen souligne la vle di?
Mande yo ki signifikasyon chak mo sa yo?
Majorite ladan yo pap kap repond w.
Yo tande mo sayo nan bouch intelektyel min yo pa konnen vre signifikasyon yo e ki wol mo sa yo jwe nan yon peyi.
Bel pawol sa yo e liv Robinson nan pa bay pep la vre rezon ki fe ke amitye Aristide e lot sekte opozisyon yo gate.
Sa pep la we se ke:
Blan yo fe Aristide tounin an 1994 e pi 10 zan plita 2004, yo voyel ale.
An 1986 pep la konen ke se li ki voye Baby Doc ale.
An 1994 pep la konnen ke se lame ki voye Aristide ale.
An 2004 pep la leve yon matin, yo tande ke Aristide ale.

An 2004 pat gen lame le sa, e pep la tap domi.
Kidonk, gen le ke gen yon twazyem laron ki antre nan jwet voye prezidan ale?
Ki kote twazyem laron sa soti kife ke presizan yo a ale, e nan ki kondisyon??
Gen le ke yo pa nan kache min voye roch anko.
Yo fe travay yo yo menm.
Eske twazyem laron sa vinn chanje regleman jwet yo?
Are they the new kids in the block?
Dapre prinsip demokratik , Aristide kap tounin lakay li.
Nou tout dako.
Men pep la e TiDodo e anpil lot moun kankou mwen we ke( map parafraze TiDodo)
[quote]My opinion here is closer to Michel's than Leonel and Serge. First of all, if I have to advise President Aristide, I would tell him to stay away to avoid criminal prosecution upon his return since 1) the justice system does not work well in Haiti 2) and even he is innocent of whatever charges they have against him, he may not be able to defend himself adequately 3) based on President Aristide's behind the scene manipulations during Preval I, it is unlikely that he would not try to influence policies nor to act as a shadow president again if he was back into the country. That would not be in the best interests of democracy in Haiti, the same way that an international coup d'etat against him did not serve the best interests of democracy in Haiti.

Like Leonel and Serge believed, President Aristide should be free to return to Haiti whenever he wants. Those who don't like him would also be free to try bring him to justice, if they don't use their old anti-democratic means to get their revenge. Unfortunately, a large number of people in Haiti do not believe in democracy, except when it can be used for their personal interests.[/quote]
No more questions, and I rest the case.
Mwen fe yon kanpe la.

Michel

jafrikayiti
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:16 pm

Post by jafrikayiti » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:40 pm

I do not have much to add except to applaud the courage of men like Randall Robinson, women like Maxine Waters who understand the importance of the heritage and responsibility we carry as sons and daughters of those noble Africans who survived the MAAFA. Folks who understand the dynamics of white supremacist racism as it plays in international politics have no difficulty understanding what happened in Port-au-Prince the evening of February 28-29, 2004. White supremacist forces kidnapped the president of the Black republic of Haiti and dumped him and his wife in the French protectorate where they had a puppet named Bosise, ready to collaborate.

Randall Robinson is a veteran of the anti-Apartheid struggle. He is also a civil rights activist in his native U.S.A who comes from a long tradition of struggle. He knows the type of animals who were involved in the 2004 crime. He knows their language, their antiques, their lies, their ugliness.
His analysis is unique because, as a son of the U.S.A. writing from a Caribbean vintage point (St Kitts) and, of course, as somoeone who had access to first hand information in real time, brother Randall Robinson can tell it like no one else could. Having read brother Robinson's books "The Debt" and "Quitting America" which I was just reading when the coup took place and coincidentally I was exactlly on those pages where he was describing his relationship with President Aristide. I remember how impressed I was with the fact that this powerful intellectual was able to use straight forward no non-sense language to expose the very complex ills that plague U.S. society in particular and the world in general.

So, his book is a must have item that I will try to acquire asap.

As for the matter of the former President's return to his homeland, I don't even waste time discussing this kind of issue. It's as if I would in 2007 be using my energy trying to convince people that Black folks have a soul, on account that some self-described respectable white philosophers had contended the opposite. Is there water in the ocean?

There was time when the question was also being asked whether it was not too dangerous to release Nelson Mandela from jail... Won't his crazy fanatics engage in acts of terrorism against poor defenseless white women? What preventive strategies can be put in place...just in case...

Mandela's release, Aristide's return home....too dangerous for whose interest? Of course only some people waste time asking these questions....people with conviction that is governed by principles somehow always know without consulting what "a great man once said" or what the CIA deems acceptable. Zafè sila yo ki kontinye ap mande blan èske m mouri !

M ale wi lasosyete !

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Anpil liv pral tombe sou koze evenman Fevrye 2004 la

Post by Michel Nau » Thu Jul 26, 2007 10:48 am

Jaf said: [quote]I do not have much to add except to applaud the courage of men like Randall Robinson, women like Maxine Waters who understand the importance of the heritage and responsibility we carry as sons and daughters of those noble Africans who survived the MAAFA. [/quote]Randall Robinson's wife Hazel, Maxine Waters and , Ron Dellums they all have worked and probably still lobbying for Aristide.
You don't want to expose these facts, do you Jaf?
You want to say that they are fine black people, and we have to accept it with no questions ask!!
But we need to question authority.
Malcolm X questioned Elijah Mohamed credibility, integrity, and morality.
Jaf continued:[quote] Folks who understand the dynamics of white supremacist racism as it plays in international politics have no difficulty understanding what happened in Port-au-Prince the evening of February 28-29, 2004. White supremacist forces kidnapped the president of the Black republic of Haiti and dumped him and his wife in the French protectorate where they had a puppet named Bosise, ready to collaborate[/quote]
You haven't changed Jaf! You haven't changed.

Let's go back to the subject!
AMY GOODMAN: What happened February 29, 2004?
RANDALL ROBINSON: Well, we talked to -- I talked to a number of witnesses, eyewitnesses to the abduction itself, and, of course, witnesses to the whole operation and things that have gone on in Haiti.
Franz Gabriel was the president's helicopter pilot had gone home to serve in the government and to helicopter the president around.
RANDALL ROBINSON: Tavis, no -- well, yes, no. Tavis said that he got a call from Ron Dellums. And Ron Dellums also worked with my wife on the Haiti team. And Ron Dellums reported to Tavis that he had just gotten a call from Secretary of State Colin Powell etc..etc.
Does Randall Robinson's book contain sufficient and accurate facts about the events of February 2004????
Should we take it at face value??
Serge di ke :[quote]Li[Robinson] chwazi sijè sa paske te gen yon vid enfòmasyon sou chapit sa nan listwa nou e li plase poul konen, kididonk, lap fè moun konen sa ki te pase, ak anpil dokiman otantik. Zafè madanm li ki tap fè "lobby" pou Aristide pa gen anyen pou wè nan koze liv la. Se pousa mwen repete liv Randal Robinson lan vin pote limyè so yon seri de detay anpil moun nan lari a pat konen.[/quote]
Limye sa pa klere ase pou Serge we ke le fet ke madam li travay pou Aristide kweye yon konfli reyel ou aparan??
Liv la pote limye se vre, men limye a pa klere ase pou anpil moun nan la ri a we.
Gen limye 100 watts, 200 watts, halogens e menm gen bouji ak bwapin.
Nap rete tand plis limye toujou e nou si ke yo pra l paret e klere tout bon vre.

Michel

jafrikayiti
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:16 pm

Post by jafrikayiti » Thu Jul 26, 2007 8:15 pm

What you may want to forget Michel is the fact that this coup did not come as a surprise for most Haitians. In fact on this very forum, more than three years before the events of Feb 28-29, 2004, there were discussions on the criminal machinations of the CIA and of the International Republican Institute with Guy Phillipe and others in the Dominican Republic preparing the deadly coup d Etat. Then of the U.S. Embassy<s role in destabilizing the Haitian government by various means. You live in Washington, so you must be aware of these as well as I am.

See, among many others:
1) How The Major U.S. Media Are Undermining Democracy: In the U.S. (Part I) by Jean Jean Pierre
http://www.windowsonhaiti.com/phpbb/vie ... 5b4883e743

2) Sortez de vos trous messieux les Ambassadeurs-Voici vos Uzis
http://www.winterludes.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=554

Also when I speak of white supremacist forces involved in the 2004 coup d Etat, I am not repeating after others. I was in Haiti in November, December 2003. I was a witness to the behavior and declarations of diplomatic skinheads like Luigi Einaudi who declared that "the real problem with Haiti is that the <international community> (a code word for white world in 2007) is so screwed up and divided that they are actually letting Haitians run Haiti". Less than two months after uttering this statement, the racist forces completely disregarded the CARICOM mediation efforts and proceeded with their coup. Later on the same forces that promoted, financed and eventually carried out the kidnapping of the president tried to put their own "candidate" in the national palace to implement their pathological ideals of a white minority ruled Haiti. And was it not for the massive outpouring of the population into the streets of Port-au-Prince, shaking down the gates of Hotel Montana where all machinations are cooked....today the President of Haiti would have looked exactly like the "good" presidents of the neighbouring Dominican Republi, where the black majority is effectively kept in "its place".

So Michel, I am not here to discuss how and why Feb 28-29, 2004 happened. I am glad to lear from people like Randall who has shown again and again that he can free himself from the bonds of racial slavery to describe world events according to a truth-centric perspective as opposed to a pre-conditioned euro-centric prism. So, contrary to those who would question President Aristide's 2000 elections while at the same time treating G.W. Bush as a genuine elected president, brother Robinson knows of the two leaders which one is the fraud and he does not shy from stating it...on account that most people have been conditionned not to think that way.

I can't wait to read the book. I can't wait to see the Haitian people reach the point when even the reactionaries of middle class and of the money class get a 10Th of the courage of the disempowered majority and actually stand up for what is right rather than what seems to be the likely to win team.

Jou va jou vyen....

Jaf

Tidodo
Posts: 117
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:07 am

Post by Tidodo » Fri Jul 27, 2007 7:46 am

[quote]Randall Robinson's wife Hazel, Maxine Waters and , Ron Dellums they all have worked and probably still lobbying for Aristide. [/quote]

What's wrong with that? As far as I am concerned they are doing a fine job for Haiti and those in Haiti who have no voice. When people provide a service, it is the "american way" that they get a compensation for it.

[quote]You don't want to expose these facts, do you Jaf? [/quote]
Jaf can speak for himself, but I do not remember, Michel, where Jaf tried to hide that these people have worked or continued to work for Aristide, whether you are right or wrong. Michel, again in the discussion of this book, let's not waste our time on perceptions of people's motivation. Just expose inaccuracies in the book with supported facts and we all would learn something, to the extent that you want to tell us something new or enlightened.

I am grateful to you for having brought the interview to our attention. That is a free service you have provided that makes the forum interesting to go to. I will not question your motivation, whether posting the interview was done for a different purpose than enlightening us.

Serge
Posts: 326
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:39 am

Post by Serge » Fri Jul 27, 2007 12:49 pm

Michel,
Mwen te an Ayiti 2 semen anavn koudeta. Sa map di w yo, se bagay mwen te rive obsève nan peyi a menm. Mwen pa kwè ou te nan peyi a epòk sa, kididonk sa wap di a, ou pa konen yo.

Si w te pran tan chache enfòmasyon, si w te pale ak moun nan lari a, ou ta tande anpil bagay. Ou ta tande anpil moun nan pèp la kap di kouman yo gen pwoblèm ak Aristide, ak yon seri desizyon li pran. Yo tap mete kont makak sou li. Men gen yon bagay yo te toujou ap di: nou te eli misye pou 5 lane, fòk li fini manda li e apre sa, opozisyon an avanl nan eleksyon pou bat Lavalas. Anatandan, se li menm nou vle nan palè a.

Sa se nèg ak 20 000 diplòm kap pale, se pa pwofesè, se pa istwaryen, se ti machan lan, se chany lan, se gason lakou a. Kididonk, pa vin pale sa ou pa konen. Se ou ki bezwen al anba lavil pou al pran bèt. lè sa, pran diplòm ou a, foure li nan you tiwa, epi al tande moun ki pa janm vwayaje , ki pa jan pase nan yon lekòl, ao pale w de sa li konpran nan mo demokrasi, sa sa vle di e kouman yo pratike sa.

Men kisa map mande w la? Komsi sa ta fè yon diferans! Mon chè, rete ak sa w panse, menm lè reyalite nan peyi a ap pete je w. Se dwa w. Map fè tankou w, map kanpe la, paske oken reyalite pap fè w chanje opinyon w.


Serge

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Ann Pale pou listwa!!

Post by Michel Nau » Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:51 pm

Mwen toujou respekte opinyon tout moun.
Kelkeswa, Serge, Bouli, Jaf, Leonel, TiDodo e tout lot moun sou forum nan, opinyon nou toujou « la bienvenue ».
Chak fwa ke mwen poste youn bagay sou forum nan se paske mwen panse ke sa kap sevi anpil mamb ki konsene e ki ta remen konnen plis sou istwa peyi Dayiti.
Paske ti liv istwa Dayiti J.C. Dorsainville e FIC yo pat konsyantize nou ase pou nou te sa konprand inpotans nou etan ke ras nwa e etan ke pep.
Le nou te rive nan klas sekonde menm, istwa Dayiti te koupe net. Sete literati Ayisyenn e fransez ki te ala mod.
Map bay youn denye opinyon sou sije sa avan ke m ale e bay youn lot moun youn chans di 2 mô tou.
Apre tout echanj ke nou fe la jiska prezan, mwen remake ke le youn “ti blan” sou forum nan kankou Wim Nusselder ki interese a Ayiti e global jistis ou byen Michael Deibert ki ekri 2 pawol sou govenman Aristide la, nou pete fiyel yo ak kout kritik, nou faroushe yo e rele shwal bare deye yo.
Non Selman nou atake yo pou sa yo ekri yo min nou atake ras e koulè yo.
Men le se youn afrikan-amerikan kankou Robinson, anpil nan nou bali la kominyon san konfesyon.
se pa jist sa!!
Mwen byen remen liv Robinson nan sitou sou zafe relasyon internasyonal peyi Dayiti ke anpil nan nou pat etidye nan lekol e ki vinn remonte fyierte nou komm pep.
Mem le misye komanse antre nan detay sou period prezidan Aristide la gen anpil bagay ke misye di ke se tout dwa mwen etan Ayisyen pou mwen pad ako.

Gen anpil chapit e môso nan liv sa ke chak moun kap pran dapre intere pèsonel yo. Pa egsanp Jaf di:[quote] So Michel, I am not here to discuss how and why Feb 28-29, 2004 happened. [/quote]
Sa ke Jaf te interese e ke tout moun te atand yo a sa se ke Jaf:
[quote]I am glad to lear from people like Randall who has shown again and again that he can free himself from the bonds of racial slavery to describe world events according to a truth-centric perspective as opposed to a pre-conditioned euro-centric prism. [/quote] Jaf nan plat li!! Se bagay pal la sa menm!!
Pou m kontinye, mwen byen kontan lè Serge analize sitiasyon an dè 2 kote e montre neglijans politisyen nou yo e naivite pep la e klas dominans nan le li redi:
Serge : [quote]Map redi li: Si w te pran tan chache enfòmasyon, si w te pale ak moun nan lari a, ou ta tande anpil bagay. Ou ta tande anpil moun nan pèp la kap di kouman yo gen pwoblèm ak Aristide, ak yon seri desizyon li pran. Yo tap mete kont makak sou li.
tout Ayisyen, pou Aristide ou kont Aristide, fèt pou li liv sa, paske li montre kouman yon ekip Ayisyen ki pa wè pi lwen ke bout nen, fouye Ayiti pi fon nan twou a. Nap peye chè pou sa koulye, pandan ke yo menm yap kontinye byen menen, menm jan ak anvan.....[/quote] Mesi pou tout moun ki patisipe yo.
Diskisyon an pa femin tout lot moun kap antre e bay opinyon yo san pwoblem.

Michel

Gelin
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:52 pm

Post by Gelin » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:42 pm

In a typical trial, there is the prosecution case and there is the defense case. There are always two sides to every story - even in the old book:
[quote]
Prov. 18:17,
The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him.

Le premier qui parle dans sa cause paraît juste; Vient sa partie adverse, et on l'examine.

Moun ki pale anvan nan tribinal toujou sanble li gen rezon. Lè lòt moun lan parèt, kat je kontre, manti kaba.
[/quote]
gelin

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Post by Michel Nau » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:49 am

Gelin, mwen byen kontan ke w we ke se pawol levanjil ke nap vide sou sit la! W se youn moun legliz e fok youn moun konfese avan ke w bal la kominyon.
Mep le Pape konfese!!
Sak gen rezon an gen to.
Sak gen to a gen rezon.
Konsa piblik la kap fe prop chwa li.
Et se travay sa menm ke pep la mande nou fe pou yo.
Ba yo limye souple pou yo sa we.

Michel

Bouli

Wi vre ann pale pou listwa.

Post by Bouli » Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:03 pm

Michel di li [quote]toujou respekte opinyon tout moun.
Kelkeswa, Serge, Bouli, Jaf, Leonel, TiDodo e tout lot moun sou forum nan, opinyon nou toujou la bienvenue[/quote]Men m'sispèk se opinion ou sèl moun nan diskisyon sa, li sèmante, li pa-p respekte.

Anpil moun ki wè emisyon manzè Goodman te fè ak Robinson lan te pale pou listwa. Se youn nan dokiman ki dekouvri kijan pifò nan medya Etazini yo desann pantalon yo nan salon pèp lan, epi sal lespri sila ki pa-p swiv vagabondaj katèl repliken ki sou pouvwa. (Si neg sa yo te fè de jou Holywood menm, lespri plis moun ta bade.) Dènyè imaj medya Meriken yo kite nan lespri pèp lan, se Aristide k'ap sove poul li, kè kontan k'ap bay manm gouvènman-l yo lanmen gwo solèy midi, anvan l'te monte avyon sovè a te voye pou li. Konsatou medya yo pa-t bezwen montre tout inosan ki pèdi vi yo nan zak vagabondaj politisyen Washington.

Medya fèmen je sou rapò profesè Griffin lan
http://www.law.miami.edu/cshr/CSHR_Repo ... 005_v2.pdf
li te gentan montre kijan tout bagay te dewoule sanbri san kont.

Dapre entrevi an toujou Robinson konpile you pakèt lòt fè Katèl Bush lan pa ka demanti.
Koumanse sou reyinyon panzou Powell t'ap maniganse ak Moreno, pase sou menm pawòl Powell sa ki pita te vin admèt se katèl li ki te kwape Aristide, jouk rive sou gwo zam lagè katèl la te distribye bay lame liberate a. Kilès kit e atann Guy philipe ki te fin pran 5 an ipotèk sou lav-il anvan li sòti ak you liv pou-l di tout sa li pa gen dwa di kounye an te santi li oblije pale anvan lè poutèt yo te arete youn nan konpayèl li yo. Si Guy philipe t'ap antrene pou vin terrorize pèp Ayisyen pandan li t'ap founi dwòg pou katèl la, se dènye moun pou yo ta eseye elimine. Paske pa gen de moun ka'p travay di konsa pou yo. Sitou nan period eleksyon kote lajan tout magouyè, machann dwòg, machann zam, ak lòt malveyan pral met ansanm pou peze sou fo balans demokrasi sa.

Pa bliye Aristide pa-t premye prezidan ki pase anba men kidnapè. Menm period la Chavez te pase anba men menm katèl la.

Michel Nau
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:38 pm

Post by Michel Nau » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:38 pm

Bouli di ke: [quote]Konsatou medya yo pa-t bezwen montre tout inosan ki pèdi vi yo nan zak vagabondaj politisyen Washington.
Medya fèmen je sou rapò profesè Griffin lan[/quote] Mwen kwe ke mwen di deja ke media yo se youn bizniss ke yo ye. Fok nouvel la vreman cho e interese majorite abone yo.
Le mwen te pale Washinton Post de raport Met Griffin nan yo di ke yo okouran de rapo sa min imaj yo tro grafik e sa kap bay abone yo degoutans.
Se sak fe ke media gwo zo yo pat interese, e te femen je yo jan w di a.
Min ti media aktivis reaksyone anba basement te simin rapo sa tet kale sou site yo.
Bouli fok w pa blye tou ke tout moun ki mouri sa yo sete sou Latortue e aksyon MINUSTAH.
De tout fason nou pa konnen ki jan bagay yo te kap pase si Aristide te o pouvwa toujou. Li te kap myo, min li te kap pi mal tou.
Bouli kontinye di: [quote]Pa bliye Aristide pa-t premye prezidan ki pase anba men kidnapè. Menm period la Chavez te pase anba men menm katèl la. [/quote] Pa bliye tou ke sete milite parey Chavez kite poze la pat souli.
Anpil moun di ke sete akoz de “kidnaping” Aristide ki swadizan pase lod pou propaje eveman kidnaping sa nan peyi Dayiti.
Zafe kidnaping sa vini kreye youn panik e dezod extraordine nan peyi Dayiti pendan tout period sa.
Anpil ti malere inosan kankou gran neg peye pou koupab.
Pou'm repete pawol gran met la “tout moun Jwen”.
Deye deklarasyon sa, si se vre, youn moun pa bezwen pshykiat pou we haine e mechanste ke misye genyen kont tout kouch sosyal nan peyi a.
Jou ale, jou vini
Youn jou la jwen pali menm jan ak tout moun..
Fok nou gen kouraj denonse dirijan nou yo tou!

Michel

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