Wikipédia : Origine des anciens Égyptiens

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Empress Verite

The Sudanese and Their Contributions to Khemet

Post by Empress Verite » Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:24 pm

Jaf:

Thanks for posting the article and the link for that website. I don't read French that well anymore but I found this quote that peaked my interest simply because it really made me think about the situation in the Sudan at this time. As a Nyabinghi Rasta myself the Sudan has interested me a great deal simply because H.I.M. was helped a lot on his return trip to Ethiopia after the Italians had agreed to leave. I always thought that it had special significance too because so many Ethiopians have come from that area.

All the same, the following quote:

"La Civilisation égyptienne est née au sud. Les Égyptiens anciens sont les descendants des Soudanais de l'Antiquité (les Grecs anciens l'ont dit). C'est au Soudan que l'on trouve les plus anciennes traces de civilisation (ces faits sont prouvés scientifiquement)..

This is radical! I read some of the comments on the site too about that research and folks were saying some pretty interesting stuff that I had never heard others (certainly not Francophone Caribbean (?) folks express before. The only person that I read in that world who writes this stuff is Diop (May his soul rest in peace).

Anyway, I believe that this is true and that the Sudan area or Cushite empire is the source of the Egyptian civilization what is the implication for what's going on now? I honestly feel that the actual move to destroy black folks is in full effect. However, once we're all gone who's gonna engineer the future?

Best,
EV

Empress Verite

Kemet/Km.T/Khemet

Post by Empress Verite » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:16 pm

Hotep Jaf:

It's me again (Men-T: The One who is Grounded), I find this whole thing hillarious! I just scanned through the first article that you posted and I found a couple of very interesting statements:

"Ce type serait donc d'origine africaine, sans être « nègre..." How can that be? There's a movement at UC Berkeley by some White scholars who want to claim that the original Africans were in fact Blond hair and blue eyes and of course this goes against the actual biological changes that we know must have happenned as the original folks moved North. Also, how can this be? This is pure Darwinistic move on these white supremist academic's part to promote their own racist agenda. Everything started with them! And that's why I hated philosophy. I never got to read some of their great authors like Nietze but I don't regret it at all because they steal too much from black folks . Like Aristotle and Plato and Picasso. They're simultaneously the baddest and the best and that never made any sense to me. Can you imagine how detrimental and downpressive this dogma is to a poor black Haitian student trying to educate her/himself in order to become fully emancipated?

Gen edikasyon ou pa ka apran lekol ditou.

The other thing is the disagreement between the so-called Egyptologists and the "Afrocentrics" about the term kemet/km.T/Khemet. Well, I would have to side with the Afrocentrics on that one. For one thing, although I only took one linguistics course in college it is an area that I have read in a good deal. And in folkloristics linguistics is a significant field. My old professor (a prolific author and researcher in that field. He is deceased) in California gave us several lectures about the idea behind nation state and how some come to be known as either father or motherland. Well to make a long lecture short, it would seem to me that it is HIGHLY likely that the area would be referred to by the character of its inhabittants especially by folks who are so different in physical appearance. For instance, Alkebulan, (the land of the blacks or something like that) or even the outrageous naming of black folks as "Nigger" because they came from the area of the Nile and more recently the country "Niger"!

Like Ti Reine wrote on the comments on Africamaat. it's taken so long for these folks to fabricate this lie. Thousands of years almost. Some progressive African writers like Ayi Kwei Armah believe that it's going to take another 1400 years to overcome this lie. Until then I guess we can keep chipping away at the lie and unfortunately that means fighting against those who look like us but who want to sell out because of some misconception about survival. There is only ONE way and that's the truth. I feel that the majority of us will never accept it.

Stay strong.
EV

Widy_

Post by Widy_ » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:08 pm

Onè rèspè,

Mwen ke reponn an menm jan ki empress verite sètadi kè orijin faraoun yo se Soudan l ka vin.

Dayè prèmye fwa m te mete pye-m nan sid Lejipt se sa nèg Nibyen yo te di-m.

Dayè ankò tout prèmye piramid ki te konstwi se nan Soudan nap touve yo, men malerèzman yo pa janm antrètèni yo e kounyela yo fè Soudanè kwè kè bagay sa yo, se biten a zounbi a maledisyoun yo ye.

Ki fè kè soudanè ki konvèti nan rèlijioun etranje pa janm foure sa an valè nan patrimwan yo, men oun lo konn listwa-la kon'm rèmake.

Mwen ke ay pli lwen ankò lè-m ka di kè si li gen la gè konsa nan Darfour se pa pou mèsi-sou-plè, men se byen pou fè nèg pèd, vwè, fè yo oubliye kilti yo, piskè Soudan kon Ayiti, se gwo mòso yo ye nan patrimwan kiltirèl nèg.

Kidonk, lese yo devlope yo, dòt ras panse kè se youn danje li ye ba yo, ki fè, si'n ka wè sa'n ka wè kounsayela.

Orijin negwo-afriken ansyen Ejipsyen yo pa gen pon dout ban mwen e se pa pou anyen ankò kè tout ne nèg a stati yo kase ou efase, kon se konsa kè se pa pou anyen kè ne Sfenx Gizeh la kase.

Lè-m te ale, mwen te mande Ejipsyen yo, poukibiten ne se stati la te kase ? Oun pati te di-m kè se Arab ki kase yo, apwe sa, yo di-m kè se Otoman (outhmani) ki kraze yo, e a la fen m'tann kè se Romain ki kase yo. Ki fè kè nou peke janm sav.

Empress Verite

The Sphinx and His Chopped Off Nose

Post by Empress Verite » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:12 pm

Widy:


Interesting comments about the destruction of black culture in the Sudan and in Ayiti Widy. I believe that this is happenning in the black world at large. The Sudanese and the Haitians don't have the best or the most authentic black cultures. We have a unique history. And the Haitian Revolution in particular remains the only successful slave rebellion in modern times. Our culture is no more African or authentic than anyone else's. I kinda resent when folks try to make us more African than others for instance in the Caribbean. That sets up too many dichotomies that do not work in our favor at all. So what does it mean that we are more African than others? We're more "savage" more atune to "nature" earth god/desses right? I can tell you about the trillion problems that this create. I don't have to tell you about how black folks were believed not to be able to speak French because of biological hinderances. We discussed this at length in Maryse Conde's class at Berkeley. I found her reaction very interesting. One African French student had asked me after my presentation on Fanon's who in my view were more African or black centered-the Martinicans or Guadeloupeans and of course I said the Guadeloupeans because of my personal experiences. I regret that response. I should have said that I did not know.
Unfortunately, these two places have placed Haiti and Haitians in a deep bind. They use us as authentic markers of the ethnicity or culture that they use to have and the one that they'll have once they jerk off the yoke of French colonialism. Well, I don't really like that at all. I find those folks are very prejudice and oppressive to Haitians. They position themselves as being better and more European in their habits and mannerisms. What does that mean exactly? That they're smarter and that they have the right to be the bekes while we slave away? Think about these things please before you write them because we're not in France or in some ban lekol in front of some white folks or "Others" that we need to impress and get crumbs from. That kind of identification does not stroke my ego in the least. It's based on a lie and it stinks. And it may come from benign feelings that really mean well, unfortunately it's like those people that go on stroking black kids' hair to feel the natural element!
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Mesi anpil pou repons ou an pou sa-m te ekri nan sijet Sphinx la. Nan documente ke-m te gade nan National Geographics te gen anpil "expert" ki te pale e bay opinyon yo nan sityasyon sa a. Yo te di ke anpil moun te ka fe sa. Men gen youn ki di ke le Napoleon Bonapat ki te premye moun ki te vin "dekouvri" sa a an egypt nan tan moden nan te jwen stati an li pat vle detwi li paske l te we ke se te ou bagay impotant. Men gen ou "expert" ki te insiste ke nen an te kraze pa ou moun ak instrument espre. Li pa kon pou ki sa yo te fe sa men li te trouve li grave kan mem. Epi li insiste ke nen an te kraze pandan mem tan ke Napoleon te jwen stati a. Li te bay evidens ke lot material nan ko stati a bay laj pwoblem sa epi tou bay "clue" sou ki le yo te kraze nen an tou.

Epi tou mwen pa sipriz ke moun an ejypt pa konen ki moun ki te kraze nen sphinx la ditou. Gade jan nou pa konen anpil bagay nan istwa pa nou an. Kom Edwidge Danticat te vin di nou tou denye man, anpil ayisyen pa konen istwa rivye ki separe ayiti ak repiblik dominikani e komen yo vin rele "rivye de san". Mwen te toujou konen ke yo pat renmen ayisyen lot bo sa a men se lem te rive nan colej ke m te li sou bagay sa epi mwen gen fanmi m ki sibi malediksyon sa a tou. Men yo pat janm pale de istwa a. Le bagay mal rive nou moun nwa bliye nou pli fasil "forgive and forget" paske nou pe batay nou pe ke si nou sonje sa ap fe nou two "angry" epi nou pap kapab avanse nan societe kapitalis la. Epitou, Edwidge di ke l te twove sa dwol ke tout dominiken yo ke l te pale de sije sa a te konen istwa rivye a. (go figure-)

Sa pa fe m fye ditou ke Napoleon Bonaparte ki te gen anpil pwoblem psykyat (napoleonic complex, and so many more.) pa blye ke se paske li te telmen twouble ke l te pedi la ge nan men ayisyen yo ke l tap kouri tounen an erop e al sove brother in law li a an ejypt ke l te kite ameriken yo achte louisiana (see the history of the louisiana purchase). Li pa fe m fye di tou ke l tale jis an ejypt poul take out his anger sou stati sphinx lan paske neg nwe te fel pedi an ayiti. Epitou pa blye ke lame pa l la se te pi gran pi fo nan le mond antye.

So whether or not it was done because the Sphinx reminded him of Toussaint is questionable. ( I can hear Sigmund Freud in my ears now. And by the way, Jaf, he based much of his research and theories on his interpretations of his clients' dreams and the nasty stories that they told him. These were predominently upper middle class Jewish women. And the Grimm brothers too based much of their children's stories on those that had been told to them by upper class Jewish women. They were shocked at the scathology, the dirty, nasty sexy tales and they watered them down. (Next time you wanna take a jab at Folklore or folkloristics consider these facts.) However, the fact has been established that the nose was chiseled off about the same time that Napoleon and his people found the statue for the first time in modern times. So who did it then? And why the nose and no other part of that body? That's a non issue in my view, we know that racism is illogical except in the minds of the perpetrators and its also irrational and tends to express itself in senseless acts that are violent in nature.

Best,
EV

Widy_

Post by Widy_ » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:24 pm

Dè tout fasoun, kisiswa moun la ki te kraze ne la, e kisiswa tout manigans yo fè pou falsifye listwa a, sa pou nous sav, e sa-m ka di zòt la tout ejipsyen ke pe di zòt li:

A sè ki parè gen oun kote nan piramid la ki make dat a la fen di monn.

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